Last week, Wolves Blog posted an article about the recent Fans Parliament meeting, at the center of which was the allegation that Jez Moxey called Wolves supporters ‘fickle’.
This post was subsequently picked up by the Express & Star and splashed across the back page the following day.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, this caused significant uproar amongst supporters, with the blog receiving heavy criticism from some for running the piece in the first place.
For this reason and for these supporters, I thought it was worth sharing ‘the story behind the story’ and clarifying our position.
Early last week, I received an email from our (now infamous) ‘source’, who felt so affected by the Fans Parliament meeting they needed to put down in writing their disappointment.
The reason this carried so much weight for me wasn’t simply the allegations of what went on, but more so the fact that this person is perhaps the most level-headed Wolves supporter you could ever hope to meet; someone who most certainly doesn’t pedal an agenda or show obvious bias towards a specific point of view.
So after sharing the information with Ben and discussing each point in detail, we felt there was definitely scope for further investigation.
We looked at various Wolves supporters forums and immediately discovered significant debate over why the minutes from the Fans Parliament meeting hadn’t been released, as they had been for every other session up to that point.
Based on this confusion, we decided it wasn’t fair to supporters for us to sit on the information we’d been handed, so we published a report the following day.
And, as with anything to do with the club’s hierarchy, opinions were aggressively divided.
Unfortunately for us, when the club responded by releasing the minutes from the meeting a day later, they didn’t fall directly in line with the account given to us by our source.
Most crucially (as this was the point everyone seemed to pick up on), we reported Jez Moxey as saying “Newsflash. You are fickle.”
By contrast, the minutes (as posted on the official site) state that he said “Come on, guys, newsflash! Some fans – and I stress ‘some’ – are fickle!”
This was subsequently gobbled up by many of those questioning the validity of our report.
However, we were later informed by our source that the club had written the minutes in such a way to paper over certain comments and clarify others:
“Although it doesn’t exactly contradict my account, every key moment – as I saw it – has been rewritten by the club. The mention of ticketing prices for Man City has been removed; The reference to Stoke supporters has been removed (I could tell you the exact sentence where these fit in!). A caveat has been added to the fickle quote. And finally, the issue of the stadium backtrack has been reworded in content and style to imply Moxey himself acknowledged he was contradicting himself whereas in reality he was challenged on this.”
Now, obviously we can throw this back and forth all day over who is telling the truth and who is only telling a version of the truth, but it will achieve very little.
The point I would like to make, is that regardless of how it was worded, these sort of statements shouldn’t be coming out of the club full stop.
Ever since the Newcastle home match, the manner in which the club have dealt with unrest amongst supporters has been nothing short of abysmal.
Quotes attributed to the manager, (some of) the players and the chief executive aren’t good enough. These are professional people paid exorbitant sums of money to cope with this sort of pressure and tolerate the frustrations of fans.
Newsflash, Wolves supporters are no more or less fickle than any other football supporters up and down the country.
You only have to look at the likes Blackburn, Chelsea and Sunderland to recognise this.
The latter of course parted company with their manager yesterday evening; a decision by the way, I personally don’t agree with.
However, a statement from their chairman certainly resonated:
“I would also like to thank our fans, who have endured a trying start to the season. Their support continues to be the driving force behind our club and is vital as we now look to the future.”
These are the same fans who booed, left early and held placards with ‘Bruce Out’ in their 2-1 home defeat to Wigan on Saturday.
I don’t think I need to say any more on the subject.
Like every other supporter, I hope for an upturn in results in the next month to lighten the mood around Molineux, but if things don’t go our way and the fans do vent their frustrations, I hope everyone within the club chooses their words more carefully.
Because a few words go a long way.
Up The Wolves.
Hi chaps,
Good post once again, and I think it has helped open a lot of people’s eyes to way the club is being run at the top.
Just one point I wanted to make, not really in reference to the above.
You write ‘These are professional people paid exorbitant sums of money to cope with this sort of pressure and tolerate the frustrations of fans.’
Maybe, but at the end of the day, aren’t they just human beings too?
Granted they may not act like it at times, but the fact that 10 professional footballers have contacted Sporting Chance about depression since Gary Speed’s death (despite no confirmation about whether this was something he was suffering from), the reminder of Robert Enke and Stan Collymore’s recent tweets shows that depression and mental illness is something that occurs in football too.
Unfortunately, football culture means that it is acceaptable to insult others in a way that we would never do so on a day-to-day basis, and most of the time get away with it.
To expect players to be able to ignore this, or for it to wash off their backs is pretty naive. And why would we expect them to? Racist comments, are rightly, tackled, so what makes insults or more extreme, harsh comments any different?
Admittedly, I didn’t use to think this way, but I think/hope that recent tragic events have helped change other peoples’ opinions on this matter. It did so in Germany after Enke’s death, I hope the same happens here.
Very good point well made Matt.
Hiya Matt, you raise an interesting point (I’ll let you off the fact it doesn’t relate to the article).
I agree footballers should always be thought of as human beings first and foremost, but there’s a definite line to be drawn.
Racist comments and hateful abuse that have nothing to do with football cross that line and are totally unacceptable. I think everyone can agree on that.
But are you suggesting that fans shouldn’t be able to question the actions and ability of players for fear of upsetting them and causing them stress?
People from all sorts of professions have to deal with criticism daily with millions suffering from stress and anxiety as a consequence.
But they recognise it’s part and parcel of the job and get on with it.
It’s only natural that a group of people from any profession, be it a footballer or politician or policeman or a shelf-stacker in Sainsburys should need help to work through their problems.
So whilst it’s great that place like the Sporting Chance clinic are available for footballers, it should be remembered that people from other professions suffering with the same problems often have nowhere to turn.
Hi Tom,
You’re too kind mate. As you probably know by now, I am the king of going off subject!
Of course we should be able to criticise actions and abilities of footballers/managers etc. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t have blogs after all and would probably spend out time gardening or something. But there is of course a line, and one where in the heat and passion of a game (how I made that sound like an erotic thriller I’m not sure) can be crossed by some.
And I think you make a valid point about stress being part and parcel of the job, and others. I’m sure we’ve all suffered it in one way or another.
The issue with football is that it is predominantely a male orientated sport and fanbase. Maen are traditionally less likely to admit to any form of stress or illness in fear of showing any signs weakness, which is especially true in football. So to voice any concerns or issues they have is difficult, and this could be related to males in general.
I do agree with you that some people don’t have anybody to turn to, and it must be a horrible situation to be in.
I think it is also pretty naive to put depression in footballers down to the fact that occasionally they get told they are playing sh*t at half time or full time. Do you think the 10 footballers who contacted sporting chance were playing football for clubs such as Blackburn, Wolves or Sunderland?! Depression is not solely attributed to work. depression is not something to be scoffed at and of course it exists in all walks of life, and footballers need support like any other profession, it doesn’t matter how rich or poor they are. but the fact is it is all sorts of factors that cause depression not just work or what happens on the pitch! Also, you must see the bigger picture and what is going on all around you. Pick up a newspaper and see how is getting slagged off. Every industry under the sun has its critics these days- politicians, journalists, sportsmen, movie stars, recruiters, public sector workers, bankers and they are all getting abuse. Abuse and criticism is not a problem of football fans but actually the fact of society and the fact that with more and more media channels, it is more evident. You cannot say this is a football fan problem, this is modern life unfortunately.
Very valid point there Dan.
What it’s good to see is football fans having the same opinion on the issue. Somebody I used to be friends with on Facebook (I defriended him after this) saying that suicide was selfish and that ‘footballers should man up’. I’m not easily shocked, but I certainly was then.
Unfortunately, it does sometimes take a tragedy to bring people’s attentions to the subject. So let’s just hope what has happened (even though not related to it) does open doors for people to talk out about it and get help with what is a mental illness.
An excellent article Thomas.
The way we play football is the best illustration that all is not as it should be at Wolverhampton Wanderers.
Certainly the ‘disrespect’ shown to the fans indicates the ‘upper echelons’ of the hierarchical structure, don’t really care for the club, other than as a cash machine.
BTW Matt, re Gary Speed I’d be very careful making any comments, for we do not know the facts by any manner of means. The man killed himself. H cannot have had any real friends, despite the many compassionate elegies.
Hi Robin,
I didn’t mention that his death was due to anything in particular. I just commented on the number of people who have contacted Sporting Chance as a result of his tragic death.
When I first heard about it, I did originally make a comment. However with more time, I think it’s unjust for anybody to speculate until we have heard facts. It’s too horrible a situation to start rumours on, and if this was done by the national media, would be awful for his family.
If it came across that I did make a comment, then apologies for any offence caused.
I am Welsh and being 28, watched Gary Speed whilst I was growing up. I would never want to blemish his name or ruin the memories and the influence he has had on myself and others, Welsh or not.
Thanks for the reply.
Your comment didn’t cause offence.
‘Depression’ itself is a debatable psychiatric subject.
Speculation of it in football ?
Best to return to the fans parliament with a R.I.P. to Gary Speed.
I’ve ummed and ahhed over ficklegate but think it’s best left in the past. Moxey and some fans will never see eye to eye, partly because he seems to be so out of touch with how the modern fan feels. Interestingly, Sunderland’s chairman said that results hadn’t been good enough and it was time for a change. We should have the same aspirations as a club like Sunderland, who weren’t afraid to drop the axe. Rumours of Hughes and O’Neill as replacements, yet results seem to be good enough for Morgan and Moxey. We shall see whether it was a good decision.
Spot on Rich. My thoughts exactly.
I find i cant blame the owners,managers and players too much for not taking all the fans viewpoints to heart.There is particularly just to much abuse and negativity – nearly half the managers in the best league in the world have got a section of fans who want there heads.
Very good blog, Thomas, and I agree 100%.
I feel very sorry for our poor little pampered darlings that they obviously havent got an individual counsellor to help then through the crisis of fan abuse, which is actually making them play worse every week.
The old adage should apply to all the players and management alike when it comes to talking about us fans.
” If you aint got nothing good to say about someone, then say nothing”
As you rightly say the stress goes with the job, and let’s face it, would’nt we all prefer their “stress” to most of ours?
Where to spend my next fifty thousand paycheck?
Come on, get real, you mollycoddled bunch of underachievers. Accept the criticism and do something like improve performances, which will alleviate it, and get the plaudits!
Not rocket science.
FOMM
Spot on Clive (not often I say that!), I think we’d all put up with a bit of abuse for the job they do and the amounts they get paid.
It’s a very interesting one, that… yes, footballers get paid a ridiculously high amount of money but it doesn’t stop them having emotions, does it?
But then again, they don’t know what it’s like to have a low income, do they?
Pitty they can’t have any emotions no sorry motions when the whistle blows at kick off.
poor sods.
Makes me want to have a motion watching it.
Would add that all fans view points are valid and i find some of the ‘abusive blogs’ amusing but to make them the basis for executive decisions would be pressing the self destruct button.
Interesting image of some Sunderland supperters with the banners, someting I don`t think i`ve seen at Molyneux so far this season. Sunderland are on the same points as we are, but with a significantly better goal difference, and have sacked the manager, obviously alarm bells have rung very loudly in their boardroom.
I can only say that Moxey and McCarthy must be under pressure of some sort from the owner, and Moxey lashing out at the fans as `fickle` is one of the consequences of that, the fans being an easy target of course. As for the alarm bells in the boardroom at Molyneux, well they must be on mute, but we come nearer to a critical time particularly with the January window. If we have a bad result on Sunday, with Manure to follow, then lets hope we have decisive action from the board. Maybe Bruce is the first of several managerial casualities from the depths of the premiership table, wouldn`t happen if we were midtable MM – would it?
Um, Moxey lashing out at the fans and calling them fickle? Read the article again – that’s hardly ‘lashing out!’
While Mick shouldn’t have called a section of fans ‘mindless idiots’ and Johnson shouldn’t have said what he said I don’t think there has been much else done wrong. In my opinion they were both right, but nothing good will come out of what they said.
I think it’s been about three weeks running that Mick has praised the fans but no one picks up on that?
It’s called “spin”, Louie, all politicians do it, and I would not be surprised if McDickhead has been told to do it from above.
Let’s face it, if he can’t figure out football tactics, he surely aint got the brains to figure “spin” out for himself!!!!
FOMM
Pretty sure for the past few years McCarthy has been fairly complimentary about Wolves fans, I agree its spin, but its not in response to recent remarks.
Personally, I’ve always found Micks bluntness to be a positive thing, much rather have that than the dull platitudes given out by previous Wolves managers.
The whole Fickle/Boo gate thing was blown out of proportion on both sides and has served as a bit of distraction just when we didn’t need one. We need to concentrate on ensuring that there are at least three worse teams come August, be that with Mick and Moxey or without them. I’m fairly confident that we are better off than Blackburn and Wigan and will finish higher than them, so that just leaves one more team. But then I’m relentlessly positive!!
For a multitude of reasons, Mick would want the relationship between the fans and the club ( i.e. himself) to be as strong as possible – it’s unsurprising that Mick would be praising the fans personally!
Can I also point out the fact that the sign that the Sunderland fans are holding is, let’s be honest, rubbish.
Come on, if you want your manager to go that much, make a spectacle of it. Don’t do it at ten to 5 on a Friday afternoon as a way to kill some time.
If people start calling for Mick to go, let’s have a competition to see who can make the best sign.
There’s only one sign, which I’ve been spouting for 2 years.
“Fuck Off Mick McCarthy”.
Says it all, really, dunnit??
FOMM
Having read and heard reports about Steve Bruce and his management style-it somehow brought home what incompetent tactical awareness our management team have been delivering. We’ve every right to feel let down and voice our opinions. Think Doyles reported spat with Mick is just the tip of the iceberg. Micks praise of the fans is exactly as Clive said-spin from above. Micks in it for Mick. Loyalty-if the Irish job came up we wouldn’t see him for dust. I don’t hear Norwich supporters being dissatisfied or QPR-thats because they are playing football and putting in performances.
This isn’t abuse this is a point of view shared by many of the fans I sit next to week after week.
5 years is long enough of Micks tenure-its time to step aside. We are going nowhere.
Whats this about Doyle having a spat with McCarthy?! Not something I’ve seen reported elsewhere.
“Micks in it for Mick”
There are quite a few areas in which you can criticise Mick but this is pure and utter tosh! Mick does care about the club, and it’s insulting to suggest otherwise!
COMPLETELY off topic, but here’s an interesting appraisal of Sunderland for your delectation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/11/new_boss_must_make_sunderland.html
Playing Records in the Premiership of two managers (including cup matches):
A. Played 98 Won 29 Drawn 28 Lost 41
B. Played 103 Won 29 Drawn 23 Lost 51
Which is the better record? Manager A has 5 more points from 5 matches fewer played.
One of the managers has been sacked and the other’s job is safe because his board has complete faith in him.
A is of course Steve Bruce and B is Mick McCarthy.
Does B include Mick’s time at Sunderland by any chance – where he was barely given any funding? And did you take into account all the players that Bruce failed to keep at Sunderland this season?
Statistics aren’t that clear-cut!
Both records are based on the same period – the past two seasons plus this one so far. I was just contrasting the attitude of the two clubs. Of course stats are never clear-cut on their own, but Chairmen rarely seem to take into account how much time a manager has had or how much money he has had to spend.
I guess that Bruce has had more money than Mick over this period but Mick has surely had enough.
Wolves seem to be alone in this thinking – that loyalty to their manager is more important than anything else. And don’t tell me that Man U stayed loyal to Alex Ferguson etc etc, because they were hardly struggling at the bottom of the table and he had such a good record in Scotland that loyalty to him was the obvious course.
I have never suggested that Mick should be sacked but I really would love to know why SM and JM believe that he deserves such unswerving support since he doesn’t have a record of success at the highest level to fall back on. How much credit did that promotion season give him? Do they really believe that one day everything will suddenly click and we will start to play like an establsihed Prem team?
Okay, point taken there – if it is over the last couple of seasons then it is pretty bad! What you’d expect from a struggling team but the fans had hoped that we wouldn’t be in this situation this season!
I think the board’s attitude towards this is that it’s a slow process – I read a tweet from Tim Nash saying something along those lines – but still, look at Stoke and Newcastle!
Mind you, it isn’t too late for things to turn around – even two out of three home wins would be encouraging – but a big change is needed. I just don’t think it’s a managerial change…
Problem is we don’t look like getting 2 out of 3 home wins!
I would love to see what kind of impetus some fresh ideas might bring to proceedings!
Both records are abysmal to be honest. We are in the premier league for a third year. We are not a small club with a zero budget. We should be progressing more than we have. MM’s record in the prem. is nothing short of terrible – with any team. I cannot understand why we persist with him and TC. This is the end of the matter in my opinion. Give MM till Christmas but then switch. Give me Curbs any day.
Let’s have a bit of Christmas fun.
Hypothetically, if MM got sacked tomorrow, and if a new manager’s salary and spending budget was, within reason (ie not Abramovitch or Etihad sheiks) unlimited, who would you want as a new manager, and why?
And this is open to any manager currently alive, employed by another club or not.
I will abstain from a pick, coz I don’t know enuff about any of the current managers outside The Prem, whereas y’all do.
So, as I said, let’s have a bit of Christmas fun, before we get to the Wolves Sunderland preview blog.
FOMM
There are dozens of managers I would prefer to McCarthy, Clive. My first choice would be Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. My second choice would be Mark Hughes. I’m a bit ambivalent about Rafa Benitez, but, if he would take the job, I would definitely prefer him to McCarthy. After that the visibility of the candidates drops a bit, but I would be happy to settle for Alan Curbishley or Roberto Di Matteo. With Wolves in their present plight, I don’t expect Swansea’s Brendan Rodgers or Norwich’s Paul Lambert would ditch their present clubs to join sinking Wolves, but they would clearly be an improvement. I’d rather have Tony Mowbray than McCarthy; he may have learned his lesson, and at least we could expect something better than passing it back to the goalie from kick-off followed by a hopeful punt down the field––McCarthy is the most crude manager I’ve ever seen in the Premier League. When I was coaching under-13s, I would have been ashamed if they ever played like McCarthy’s Wolves! I’d prefer a gamble on a young up-and-coming untried coach rather than fiddling while Rome burns. There are bright young managers in the lower leagues. Or, say, someone with a Wolves connection, like Alex Rae or Rob Kelly––an enormous gamble, sure, but who knows? A young manager might respond to the challenge or rebuild the team well if we were relegated. Sticking with a manager who has proved he can’t develop in the Premier League seems the worst alternative of all. That is, unless we’ve given all ambition of establishing ourselves in the Premier League. Even Paul Ince would be an improvement. But , , , let’s fly with Solskjaer!!!
Chaps – I think f*ck what the club say – these days it is all spin anyway. Keep up the good work.
They treat us like a bunch of idiots and Mick McCarthy is a one man PR disaster with his abuse of the fans (if he was in any other business and abused customers he’d be out on his ear) and now Moxey has decided to show his true colours.
If you love Stoke so much f**k off back there and leave your car keys at the front desk.
I have a free ticket for Sundays game (and even as a freebie I cant be @rsed at the moment)
I’m going to start the chant “McCarthy for Sunderland!”
We have lost 8 games already, bloody pathetic.
I wanted MM out of our club when he, after 2 wins on the bounce, changed 10 outfield players against Man Utd a few seasons ago.
I lost all respect for him after that,I went to Old Trafford that night, and when the stadium announcer started to read out the teams I honestly thought Jeremy Beadle was about.
I will always remember him for doing that, and never for getting us promotion and winning the Championship.
His tactics or should I say lack of them, really does my head in, as for the players taking critism, well tough, I wish I was on the money they was earning, I know one thing for sure, I would sweat blood for my club for nothing, so the money they are paid they should be doing the same.
Don’t know about everyone else but I’m sick of losing week in week out, and lets be honest here Wigan should have got something out of that game.
The Everton game was a pathetic display, and then he comes out with statements that he was delighted with the performance.
MM OUT
Here Here, Well said that man..
Sums up how a lot of supporters feel.
Have some ambition Morgan and move on.
For starters, the death of Gary Speed has nothing to do with abuse of managers, never mind CEOs, because the tragedy happened when virtually all Welsh fans, of which I am one, were praising him to the heavens. And most others too were admiring the job he was doing.
As for McCarthy, I don’t see how anyone can criticised for pointing out that his record in the Prem is not good enough for a team that wants to improve.