Firstly, I owe you all a big apology for not only the delay in getting these minutes across to you, but for my general absence from the blog of late.
I won’t bore you with the reasons, but suffice to say that life can throw up its unique challenges when you’re least equipped to deal with them.
Onto the parliament meeting…
I am not going to delve into the whole Fans’ Survey results, as they are on the official website to look at in the official minutes.
I am going to report on the items that I think interest you all, from the questions I received before the meeting, so here goes…
Summary
On the whole, it was an interesting evening with no questions ducked. Around 50% of all questions asked related to our transfer inactivity in the striking department. Annoyingly, two players were specifically named by Moxey and the reasons for not signing them, but I am not permitted to break an ‘off-the-record’ understanding.
They would have improved our front-line immeasurably and you might deduce who they are, but I can’t tell you why they didn’t join us for fear of upsetting inter-club relations. It was alleged by Moxey that money had nothing to do with one of the players joining.
I’ll have to leave this to your imaginations I’m afraid…
Minutes
One new FP member asked: “I want to understand how Kenny Jackett comes to you and says I want a striker with a list of targets, only to end up with Yannick Sagbo? What was the process?
JM: The amount of time and effort and the negotiations that took place in our attempts to sign the targets Kenny identified was considerable. There were certainly three or four targets we spent time trying to sign but for one reason or another they did not come off.
It is not as simple as saying we didn’t pay enough money. (At this point an example of a striker very nearly signing for us was given, with the reasons for him not joining having nothing to do with money as he wanted to join)
The backing was there. Everybody knew we were interested in Andy Delort and you know the figures that were involved in that. Steve Morgan has always said that money is available for a striker.
Regarding Sagbo
JM: Kenny decided that we needed to bring in somebody on loan so we got Sagbo. Then we did very well to send him back to Hull City and replace him with Danny Graham.
Another fan: It is very frustrating. Is Wolverhampton Wanderers a big club or not?
JM: (At this point another striker name was given who we didn’t sign, whose name and reasons for not signing I can’t give as it was ‘off-the-record’)
JM added: What happens if a signing doesn’t work? We are not in a position where we will pay £2 million over the odds for a player, but we will continue to try and sign players. The amount of work that Kenny Jackett, Kevin Thelwell and the scouts have put in is incredible.
We signed who we wanted to in the summer apart from that striker. We are absolutely hopeful that we will get a striker in January and we are happy to sign that striker on a permanent deal.
JM added that the loan system will be looked at to replace Sako and Dicko while they are at the African Cup of Nations, in addition to a permanent striker signing.
Another fan said: With the dossiers and due diligence we now undertake, the Sagbo signing was a hash job.
JM: I’m not going to defend it. It is there for all to see. It wasn’t a panic signing. It was a loan and Kenny Jackett was happy that he fitted into the criteria we have for signings, as a loan arrangement.
It could happen again. People who employ people can get things wrong. Chelsea spent £50 million on Torres for example. It wasn’t a financial crippler for us but we tried to mitigate it by sending him back and bringing somebody else in.
Dicko injury
One fan asked: How was Dicko allowed to go away on international duty with Mali when he wasn’t fit for us?
JM: He was fully fit because he was on the bench for us against Derby County. He carried out a battery of fitness tests on the Thursday or Friday before he left and passed them all.
When players go away (on international duty), if they are not with a home country or a nation we know well, then it is difficult to have any control of what they do and what sorts of training they are doing.
I wanted to get back to why we missed out on one unnamed target and the procedures we go through. What is the process when we try and sign a striker (so I can understand why we have failed to bring our targets in).
JM: I want to share what I can but don’t want to be left open for criticism. I got dog’s abuse for saying we were aspiring to be like Everton in the last parliament meeting. I think it was you who asked the question.
The situation is that we are all working extremely hard together on a day-to-day basis. We talk about players and review targets on a daily basis.
There are all sorts of things that are happening involving all sorts of people before a transfer becomes possible. As one former manager said, the key is to keep the plates spinning to give ourselves the best chance.
Another fan asked if there would definitely be money available in January?
JM: The answer to that is absolutely. We think we have done quite well but could do better. Nobody was more unhappy about Yannick Sagbo than we were but our record has been pretty good. We want players developed from our academy but do you know what? We need to buy some quality players too so we will have a chance of promotion.
Golbourne
Was Scott Golbourne dropped before he picked up his injury?
JM: No. He was always injured. Players have to play with aches, pains and stresses. My understanding was that Scott Golbourne had an injury with his heel and had to be left out. I have spoken with him and he has talked about not being right for a long time and it had been getting worse and worse and worse.
Shelter for disabled fans:
My question on behalf of StuWolf about disabled conditions: Why are there no covers for disabled fans in the lower areas of the stadium, specifically the North Bank lower?
Paul Richards and Lynne O’Riordan said: The stadium manager is looking at shelter in this area. The initial reaction is that if you put a shelter above the area it will lean, so there is a water displacement issue, but we are looking at it.
Paul Richards said there was no timescale on this.
My conclusion
Moxey was clearly trying to make the point that money hasn’t necessarily been the root of all of our transfer evils, as one example was given where cash had nothing to do with our failure to sign a high profile target.
His underlying point was that we won’t pay more than we think the value of a player is (he said we won’t pay £2 million more than we think a player is worth, while Jackett said in the E&S that Assombalonga at £5 million was too high a price for us).
Moxey then counters any argument to pay such figures with: ‘Well what if it goes wrong…Been there, done that and we’re still paying the price today.’
Fair enough point, but my point is this: If you use that logic for every signing we go in for then we simply won’t sign a single striker of quality in this Ross McCormack induced market of inflation.
Ergo, we haven’t signed anyone of note and we won’t sign anyone of note in the future.
So while the rationale during much of the meeting made sense, the pertinent line of the evening was thus:
Moxey: “We are happy to invest in the right player, of the right age, with the right profile.”
With Kenny’s pre-requisites presumably being pace, mobility and goals, I fear that no such player exists under the above parameters.
We shall see…
As fans,we have a vested interest in being able to compete at top six championship level get up,and stay up in the premier…Nothing less.
Moxey has a vested interest in building the Club asset with minimal investment and I’m certain now there was an arrangement with KJ that if he wanted the job he had to do it with a restricted amount of money..
My guess say £5m.
A while ago with the youngsters in the wings and with KJs restructure without doubt from Moxey’s point of veiw he was doing it and what a good manager he was..(is)
But now because our back line has been easily penetrated,our main man (KMac) has been identified and made to defend, plus the need for a striker, financial bolstering is imperitive and that will cost real money.
If Thirlwell and KJ fluke cheap purchases in Jan that are a success in so much as we make the play offs then we will need two gold statues..
The defensive weaknesses are in my view a bigger concern than our central attack options. Graham scored his first goal and the experiment playing Van La Parra in the middle was successful. If we can get a couple of wins and regain confidence we’re capable to reach the play-offs. I hope so for the fans sake. Nothing is more boring than to finish the last part of the season with nothing to play for.
I carnt understand why and how they have silenced you regarding the striker issue…?
What this off the record crap…?
Surely your they to ask the question with a view to getting an answer and reporting back to us…?
This deal only reinforce the view that the fans are being kept in the dark. What’s the point in you being there..?
Utter bull shit mate….I’m sorry you carnt tell us because they’ve told you not to.
This only reinforces my view about the fans Parlement………..the word puppets springs to mind.
Utter rubbish.
Thx for going Ben and putting the pressure on.
Agreed… Your effort and diligence is much appreciated.
Thanks for giving up your valuable time to attend – much appreciated.
I would have asked why Sako gets a start when he obviously wants to be elsewhere,if he has what it takes to play in the PL I have not seen it. We need to build the club around people who want to be here,a perfect example of that is Kevin Doyle,never looking over his shoulder for better offers. What does he get,ostrasised with RJ and company.
I was 100% certain we had the right manager,not anymore,too much messing with selection and formation and dreadful reaction to events via substitutions,Saturday being a perfect example when we should not have collapsed after the sending off,Sako was a luxury we could not afford and should have been replaced by Jacobs,leaving the best player on the park (JH) to relieve the defence and still be an outlet. All the Sako wants to do is self promotion and does not cover,chase runners block crosses,all a part of the wide MF role
Sako is our best player, that is why he starts.
Sako is maybe our best player going forward. Hes nowhere near our best player defending a 1:0 lead with 10 men
If you look purely at the Win/Draw/Loss Column rather than recent results, you would have to say that 12th is a pretty good league position for a squad that’s just come up from a league below and spent fuck all.
We all got carried away I think and now have lumps in our throat as we plummet towards relegation … but we need the perspective that zero funding brings
FOr the life of me I can’t understand why Kenny would leave Millwall to be given an even smaller budget … so I think he will have been lied to by The two Fat Bastards… Just like us fans are lied to every. fucking. year.
Your a twat ad mant and a baggie, you have never given the Wolves or anybody connected to see club credit, you used to gob your bile in the E&Stir until you got fucked off, supporter you ain’t now FUCK OFF!
Thanks for your report Ben.
It sounds to me like you were fed a load of pre-Christmas fudge.
Other clubs, with half the fan base and probably only a fraction of our cash have snatched players – notably strikers – from under our noses.
They have invested money. Probably money that they can ill afford, but they have gambled on buying proven goal scorers.
The simple truth is that we, quite patently, have not.
I also don’t know really know why some answers to certain questions are off the record.
It’s a fans’ parliament for God’s sake.
Not a special intermediary committee meeting that is held in secret.
I’m certainly not having a go at you – you are reporting back what you are allowed to by The Right Honourable Jesmond Moxey – but it seems like a contradiction in terms.
It’s in the name – Fans’ Parliament.
The fans should know exactly what goes on in the question and answer session.
We ain’t living in a Communist State.
It’s important that you keep attending these meetings and I appreciate the time and effort you put in but it sounds like it’s just the same old same old.
I really feel for Kenny Jackett.
I agree with your thought that there isn’t a striker in the World that would fit all of JM’s needs at the price he is prepared to pay.
But all – or a large proportion of all – will become clear in January.
Happy New Year everyone!
I’ve just read this back and I’m concerned that it reads like a ‘let’s have a go at Ben’ blog.
It certainly wasn’t meant to and we all should be grateful to you for taking the time and putting in the effort to try and get to the bottom of the dark secrets behind the Molineux Game of Thrones.
Keep it up mate!
Are you starting to agree with me about an edit button?
Joking aside, I am sure Ben is intelligent enough to know that it was not a dig at him. I am also sure that he knew what he was getting in to before he agreed to participate.
Ben, thanks for all you are doing mate. I believe, as I have said before, that the January window will show their true colours!!!
I await with interest (and hope).
Once again a load of bollocks, you don’t know how much money KJ has, KJ identifies targets not JM, no money invested! Oh like the pennies for Doyle, Fletcher, Johnson, O’Hara, etc,etc, pennies for Solbaken, the truth is we are not spending the tens of millions that you numpties want.
Fuck the future of the club, let’s just spend regardless, let’s get promotion and struggle because we ain’t got the money to spend on new players because rather than build like Derby have for example the glory hunters want it today, now.
Have you lot forgot the bhattis! and if we had not had the parachute money we could have gone the same way, then you Moxey haters would really have a field day.
If we had gone after Wilson his price would have gone up and up because Bournemouth wanted him and have the clout to do it, we on the other hand signed the leagues top goal scorer at that time.
It doesn’t matter who we sign, you fucking lot will still moan, you won’t be happy until you drive everything that is good out of WWFC, get rid of Morgan – yeh and who the fuck is waiting to buy us, get rid of Moxey! and you really think that any CEO worth their salt will do anything differently?
Look at how we got on “before” Morgan/Moxey came to the club.
How much money did we spend on players in our glory years and with the crowds we had! even the years leading up to the Bhatti era, We spent Sir Jacks millions like money was going out of fashion and still we are no further forward, did you lot castigate him! no – well only the low life scum who spat at him!
Any reasonable thinking Wolves fan (and I say that loosely) would have settled for mid table this season, but we have been spoilt by our early season form, me! I want promotion when it comes, and what is best for WWFC in the long term and not the short term, and certainly not for the glory hunters who want it now, today, who just want to spend millions regardless of what happens to the club long term.
Sorry for going on, but it makes my skin crawl when we have bastards like ad mant and Chris h and other E&S clones ridiculing the club because it doesn’t fit their pathetic agenda.
I have just looked up Ad mants posts and don’t undertand what you are saying here. I am sure Ad mant is as baffled as I am in what you said!!
DOOGooder couldn’t agree more again thanks for going your time and effort Ben but your to nice, all this off the record bollocks sorry mate but it is.
Moxey is there to answer the question honestly (yeah right) put to him he needs to look up how a Parlement works .
It all come down to penny pinching if Bournmoth can afford £3 million and we carnt then we can no longer call our selves a big club Moxey and Morgan have turned us into a small minded club.
No wonder the gates are low after the success of last season they could have made a statement of intent by making a decent signing of a striker.
I don’t blame those fans for staying away why should they invest when clearly Morgan has not and will not.
In my experience people who quote off the record are only trying to hoodwink you or put over a viewpoint that would not stand full scrutiny. If Jez Moxey really wanted to be open and forthcoming I am sure he was capable of providing sufficient details that could be freely shared with everyone.
Did you not ask my question Ben, ie what was the affect of spending £7m on the academy on the transfer budget this summer. It beggar’s belief that this was not a factor in the lack of actual spend on transfers.
moxey is like a typical polititiam ,full of shit ,this club isent going to progress as it stands wiyh the finacial constraints ,wen he says for one reason or another we dident sign the player ,well tell us wat the fuckin reasons a player dident sign,it does boil down tp money ,also he said kenny got all his summer targets,well got to correct u there jez,wernt we in for harry maguire,but we woudent pasy ,so it was obvious kenny wanted another defender,the club will never learn ,all theu are good at is trying bullshit us all,they kmnow by going up it will cost them big time ,and i fear morgan just wont pay money ,gettin 20ooo gates each game is good for them keeping the club nice and steady ,and then hope that players come thru and sell them on,u watch in january no money will be spent at all,
First Sherwood could you put DAT in der English please, Maguire didn’t want to come to us, he wanted to go to Hull, find the site were he said it, also we agreed the fee with sheff utd.
Has for gates, we were getting 50,000 gates in the 50s but still didn’t spend that much, And take note Chris h – we had a successful youth system, also we had clubs like with wanderers supplying us with players, add to this we built 6 teams who could compliment each other, we will never get back to those times because fans want to spend,spend,spend, like a certain person who questions the spending of £7 million on the academy, well if the moron can’t see why we spent that money then we are in trouble.
Are you real………so we’re going to get promoted via the Acadamy when 2035 ?
Seems as though I’m in a time trap, thought we had moved on. On the cheap again with crap flowing everywhere. Sorry but Morgan has not moved this club forward one inch and he won’t.
I now where my money’s staying
Keep away then! And shut up,
Ben.
I think you are getting the brunt of our bloggers frustration here, we all genuinely appreciate your efforts and support and applaud your effots and time given up on our behalf.
I am neither disabled nor at present know any disabled fans save one from Rugeley by sight only, but I am 100% commited to looking after their interests on their behalf. On that point I thank you again for your efforts on their behalf, they get a raw deal inside this modern stadium of ours, the work done so far is commendable but in my eyes falls a long way short of the conditions they deserve.
Whilst satisfied with the fact the subject was discussed and obviously JM is following your blog site hence the talk of dugout style cover as we alluded to on the site, their answer, “No timescale” is not acceptable. These guys and girls have basic human rights that need addressing now before they have to endure another damp cold winter supporting the team. Inhave decided that I am going to try and get onto the DSA and try to push them more on the issue.
To any bloggers who support this cause, your help and ideas would be appreciated.
Once again thank you for a voice on behalf of the fans Disabled and able bodied alike.
Stu
🙂
Whilst I respect the disabled – my father was disabled for over 30 years, to say they get a raw deal is bollocks!
They have a lift to take them to the upper Stan Cullis (how they get down in an emergency), they have their own room with refreshments and TV, they have their own parking spaces, their helpers get in free?
Yes they get wet when it rains, but so do a lot of other fans, I suppose the next thing will be private box’s with a five course meal, free drinks and a free proggy, oh I forgot free travel provided by the club door to door!
John Davies.
I bet “Your dad is really proud of you”
What a twat!!!!!!
Ah well back to the grown ups.
Unbelievable! I was not expecting to read something like that.
I am disabled. It is true that there is a disabled lounge in the Stan Cullis, which I occassionally use and is a good facility.
My season ticket is for the Billy Wright, so I can’t comment on the lifts in the new stand. I agree that it is a great pity that *any* supporter gets wet in our newest stand. The point to consider is that someone with a disabilty might be less able to deal with the consequences of getting cold and wet, I would certainly be amongst that number. Don’t be fooled by my jokes about sparks, flashes, rusting and WD40, there is a serious point to this too.
For the record, to be able to qualify for the diabled concessions, one has to provide current evidence of entitlement to DLA/PIP. If someone needs to be accompanied to attend a match, (this is a “free” seat, which I don’t have myself by the way) then a current letter from a GP is also needed. This seems fair and reasonable to me. Facilities for fans, whether diabled or not could always be improved.
I am not sure how being disabled for 30 years, for a short-time due to injury, or a because of a lifelong condition such as mine makes anyone more or less disabled, or more or less worthy of concessions that are available.
Ben does a great job in the parliament and on the blog. Sadly, it does seem as if the quality and veracity of the comments on the blog have dipped of late, much like the team’s form.
Season tickets are not free, I am happy and fortunate enough to be able to pay for mine.
In my humble opinion Jez Moxey was brought in by Jack Hayward to balance the books operating within pre-determined and specific financial perameters. Like any employee, he has a job description and works to it. As chief executive I assume he is paid a wage for what he does. I also assume part of his job is to attend the fans parliament and answer questions in good faith. He is not going to step out of line and attempt to deflect any potential criticism coming his way elsewhere. In my view, if we, as a body of fans are not satisfied with player investments beause of alleged financial restrictions then we need to be asking questions of those who employ Jez Moxey to do his job.
Cheeseburger, have you had a Five Guys burger, yet?
Your summation is far too simple in my opinion. Ultimately the owner must have overall responsibility, but you cannot discharge the responsibilities of a chief executive so easily. Surely you are aware of the quote by Morgan’ I say to Jez ‘I am only a builder I look to my chief executive to advise me on football matters’. Jez as chief executive is responsible not only for controlling costs but ensuring money is spent wisely in the transfer market. He personally undertakes all negotiations and his methodology and principles of seeking what he considers to be value for money has dominated our football club’s fortunes or misfortunes for the last 14 years. We have spent plenty of money in the last 14 years in the transfer market, but a lot of it has not been spent wisely. Jez Moxey is cuplable in this respect.
Exactly! Also a board of directors, and others within their mist freeloading!
LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH !!! MUG !
Wolves are selling a product like every other football club.
If the product is not good enough then fan support and television revenue will fall and ultimately JM’s wages will also fall.
Wolves are relying on the good will of their fans but it really hurts when even Brighton recruit Darren Bent and all we do is recall a league one forward.
Up the Wolves and FOWB
Footnote — Having watched the diabolical referee in the last game, SM reflected what everyone in the stadium wanted to do — good for him.
Wages! Brighton I believe are owned by a billionaire! I suppose Steve Morgan should put all of his millions into the club, stuff his business, stuff his family, just spend all his money on us!!k!!
Just my opinion.I don’t want to fall out with anyone! We are all Wolves fans. The minutes above may back up my theory where JM said “Steve Morgan has always said money is available to buy a striker”.
Ben,
First, a big hearty thanks for spending your valuable time on our behalf away from your family and work.
With all the bullshit you have had to put up with spewing forth from that greasy turd’s mouth, may I offer the following suggestion:
Having been fobbed off twice now with utter bollocks from him, is it worth going to the next fans forum/parliament/spin factory?
No, I say.
So now without the pressure of being banned, you can tell us all the “off the record” nonsense, name names, and expose the fraudulent, flatulent goblin for the liar he is.
We want to know everything, we deserve to know actually, and I also suggest that if you do tell him to stick his torpedoes up his ample arse, we should erect a chocolate statue of you outside the North Bank!!
Yes, Benny Boy, do a Snowden, expose him for his cover up.
Who does that self important slob think he is?
He is a poor excuse for a CEO in a second division football club, currently playing at a relegation pace.
Not much to write on your CV is it?
No, fuck him and his delusions of grandeur, tell all and win the hearts of the few who still sit on the fence, and damn the consequences!!
Thanks again, mate, and if you wanna chat anytime, you know where I is.
And the last time you paid to see a match gobby was when! You are a foul mouthed gobby twat, who thinks he is a Wolves fan, WELL YOU ARE NOT! You would shit yourself if you came face to face with Jez, its easy to character assassinate, and name call from afar, why don’t you go down to the club and see him, I bet you were one of those that spat at him and Sir Jack all those years ago, go and accuse him of fraud, because by accusing him you are accusing our club!
So fuck off you fat gobby twat over the pond.
And a Merry Christmas to you, too!!
Easy to character assassinate from afar, is it?
Kind of like what you are attempting to do?
I will not lower myself, obviously a long way, to the depths at which you currently reside, to reply in kind to your rant.
I am sure my fellow bloggers may have a few choice words for you on my behalf.
You have a nice day now.
Nicely put Clive, nicely put. I depair at times, when people like that come on here. Surely Ben and Thomas may be able to offer some “advice” to him. Otherwise we can all gather at our “watering hole” after having invited him to join us so that we can also give him some “advice”.
Take care mate.
Hya John
I’m sure that the Big C from Houston doesn’t need me to defend him but I think the last time he paid to see a match was the day of The Bloggers Ball at the back end of last season.
He also paid the air fare from over the pond, which probably cost more than the price of a season ticket. He also brought gifts for the bloggers who were there and I can assure you that he is a Wolves fan.
Before he moved to the colonies, I believe he followed the team pretty much everywhere.
I don’t think he would shit himself if he met Jez.
You’re right about one thing though – he’s certainly gobby.
And he owes me a drink!
Nice one Ben…
Reading through the report and having been to differing types of meetings, I can understand why some things are “off record”. It may be to save a third party embarrassment – in this case a player we were chasing could have been sleeping with jez moxey’s Mrs… The player we were chasing may had a personal reason to stay in the area they wanted… There may have been a request or “gag” by the player or his agent…Only the player and the top brass know and maybe that’s how it should stay.
If I turned down an offer of a job and gave my reasons in confidence, then I would hope that that company would not then blab about it.
Most things we should know as fans, however Wolves as an employer have a duty of care to its employees and potential employees before us fans / supporters.
50 years ago, even 15 years ago… we would not be have been screaming for so much info. Times have moved on with social media and more access to reports, however some things cannot move at the same rate.
You see managers fired all the time because of the “we want it now” society. I see it at work where customers expect breakdown vans to be waiting at the end of their street for when they breakdown and an arrival of an hour (or more) is treated with anger and disdain.
If we push for too much too soon, we will not like the outcome . Whether that is feeling as if being passivised or whether it’s not gaining promotion “this year”.
Let’s see what happens in the January window, if a striker is signed then we could take what has been spouted by the powers that be, as factual whereas if no movement – then we know to expect “more” dross being spewed out.
Agree with StuWolf regards no time frame set, as that is a sheer cop-out / brush-off. Not sure DSA could do much as this is an event, the customers can choose not to attend. As long as they have good access and accessible facilities, they’ll pass it off. But well worth a shot as you never know… You have my backing with pushing it, if signatures are required you can count on me. At the end of the day if the club are backing away from an such an ethical and possibly embarrassing situation from a minority with a small voice, then the club should be thankful of you spotting the issue, giving direction and thankful to Ben for raising on your behalf.
So Ronaldo in the January Sales then lads and lasses… Woohoo!
Thanks Buddy.
If I can get a foothold I can make a noise, I’m retired with feck all to lose, so if he spews forth shite I will spot it as such and will tell him, I’m not confined to a piece of metal with wheels and don’t have to sit and freeze my butt off to watch his team. I will get dignity and basic human rights for our fans into the conversation, with time we can break down barriers.
They can block and stop lots of ideas and proposals, the one thing no-one can ever stop is Enthusiasm. If they can find the Albion Trophy box, then I’m confident we can get help for our less able bodied fans. If their only argument is water drainage then (it don’t hold no water), (see what I did there)
In the words of that great Texan Poet, CFH
Fook him.
🙂
Is that a double negative there?
I agree with you mate, let us put a bit more pressure on them, after all we should be looking after our people as best as we possibly can – they deserve it.
At last a good sensible comment (including some of mine!!) But you forgot Messi and Aguero,
The striker we though we had signed was Bamford, Mourinho told him to go to Boro to work under his protege Karanka. Callum Wilson was the other player mentioned – we felt he was too similar to Dicko at that point – and also too rich at £3m. We then ended up bidding £3m for Delort – which seemed a bit ‘after the Lord Mayors show’.
Totally agree with DOOGooder and other above: whole point of the Fans’ Parliament is to inform fans and address their issues and concerns. All this off-the-record nonsense betrays the whole point, doesn’t it?
It all sounds so fake. Excuses after excuses. Fact of the matter is, that despite all our excuses that targets were priced over the odds, other clubs didn’t seem to find that problem, and they got their targets and moved on. My conclusion from all this is that perhaps our “master negotiator” Mr Moxey is perhaps complicating the negotiations a little too much. Penny wise pound foolish! Fixated with trying to get the “bargain” and ending up getting nothing.
My expectations for January are low. There are typically much fewer good players available in January than in summer, because nobody wants to sell their good players mid-season. All the statements of money being available for players in January is just front and propaganda. We’ll soon start seeing the excuses about why we missed our targets. Problem is “not enough” money will be available in January to get the players we need, just like “not enough” money was available in summer, and before.
So we’ll buy more championship players on the cheap like Rowe, Saville, Clarke, …, hardly players that are going to light the EPL are they?
The more interviews I read from Jez Moxey, the more convinced I become that he is the problem at Wolves. His control of finances and negotiations are what hinder the progress and building of a quality football club.
He’s just got it wrong.
GW
NK I’m interested in your information route…seems accurate…
All three players needed negotiating skills to close a deal ..my assumption re £5m to spend was close ..no doubt we would push the boat out if they were worth it.
It’s all about making the new guy wanting to play for Wolves ..that’s the skill…
I appreciate the efforts made to get info out of the management, and can’t reallu understand why they don’t respond more positively to fans’ concerns. The only conclusion is that they treat it as a business, and money is at the root of all the gaping gaps. They regularly go on about our wonderful scouting system, but I can’t see much benefit from them when we take on the likes of Sagbo.
It is obvipous too that we need a defender – or two; as someone remided us, we did go after Harry McGuire.
If Scott Golbourne has the foot condition called ‘plantar fasciitis’ as reportedthen it will take a lot of dealing with, and I hope for his sake it can be alleviated as he was for me one of our best players in the early part of the season.
As for strikers, we do have two options with La Parra and Sako both caplable of playing there; it really is the defence where we need strengthening.
I was reading Ben’s minutes again this morning and when I got to the piece about shelter for disabled fans, I had to chuckle.
“if you put a shelter above the area it will lean, so there is a water displacement issue, but we are looking at it.”
What a classic example of doublespeak!
The same amount of water is going to fall.
It has to be ‘displaced’ somewhere.
It’s either going to end up on the ground or on the poor sods sitting under where the roof should be.
Take that argument to its logical conclusion and we should get rid of all the covering in the stadium.
That way there will be a zero displacement problem scenario. (I’m getting the hang of this jargon).
We can all take the water with us when we leave the ground and wring our sopping wet clothes out when we get home.
Doogooder,
You read it the way I did, even the Feckin stadium manager is singing the same party song, I think Gene Kelly did it many years ago, even back then they gave him an umbrella.
We are treated like morons, we are fed copious amounts of the brown sticky stuff and treated like sponges for their verbal Diarrhoea, so perhaps they think wr shall go away, well not so. Our major problem is we are fans, they really do have us by the short curly ones and feel they can do as they wish with us and to be honest continue to do so.
But we are now in a push back age, people of dubious credentaials and intent are getting their just rewards, it’s so sad that JS died before he got his.
Our fans Parliament is not backed by some limp wristed yes man, we have an intelligent articulate spokesperson in Ben, more importantly he is backed by a generation that bucked the trend, decided to get off their Arsenals and fight back and as witnessed in the strength of feeling on this site to Lord Moxeys answers, we are going to give him a hard time.
I think perhaps we should start a discounted ticket scheme, whereas for every 5 litres of displacement we take home we get 5% discount on home games, or 2% off away coach travel.
After reading Lorm Moxey’s comments I have a summary for him.
Maybe if some of you “fans” stopped talking like morons you would be treated differently, I had it it when I was a works convener, every meeting we had the members wanted to know everything that was said, we could be in meetings for days, their was always one, I pay my union dues I am entitled to know everything discussed! we were always accused of holding back, like one year in the 70s we got a £14 an hour wage rise, some bright spark said turn it down, we did and ended up having to settle for £8 quid, so be careful what you moan about, the moral is I suppose “you ain’t going to be told everything” even those that go to the FP I bet stretch the truth a wee bit with add one’s here and there.
You were offered a £14 AN HOUR pay RISE in the seventies!!!!!!!!!!
And turned it down as a result of listening to one person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What were you earning an hour FFS?
That’s a weekly pay rise of £70 a week – in the 1970s!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn’t earn anywhere like £14 an hour in the 70s.
I earned £20 gross a week in 1971 and around £50 at the end of theb seventies.
What did you do for a living?
Steppenwolfe.
In the 70s he closed down factories with his foul sewer mouth and his stupid wage demands.
And he’s probaly lying too!!!!!
Oooooooooops. Probably.
14 pounds per hour raise?
That is 560 quid a week raise.
So, assuming he was “earning” something before the raise, lets say 10 pounds per hour, that makes his weekly wage at least 960.00 per week.
In the seventies.
And I get accused of bullshit?????
Your’e from Texas, it’s full of BullShit errrrs
That’s probably why he attacked you.
???? ????
Thanks for correcting my maths Clive – doh!!
Yeah, I agree with your £560.00 per week raise Clive, but only if he works 40 hrs a week. I’ll bet some people will now be taking out their calculators. I know you are right because I work those hours too, but I dont earn £24.00 per hour (anymore)!
Thanks for the reporting back Ben. Appreciated.
I see we intend to replace Sako and Dicko wsith loan signings during the ACN. We also intend to sign another striker on a permanent basis. In effect that’s two strikers and our leading goalscorer’s replacement. Given our failure to sign even one striker over a prolonged period of time . . . . . . . do you really think we will sign 2 (or3) in January?
I’ve had enough of this John Davies
character on this blog ..must be a relation to Mr Moxey..
Q. Are Wolves capable of achieving
premier league status nxt year in the present squads form?
A. No
Conclusion ..buy in players within our cash constraints or borrow it..
(Like everyone else does)
Thanks for all the comments following on from my blog.
I will just share some more of my thoughts generally.
Chris H: I didn’t ask your question I’m sorry. I feel like it is a bit like PMQs a bit in there, and I want to get over my two hardest hitting questions. Then the meeting moves on. Before you know it, it’s over and I’ve missed my opportunity to ask. Sorry. I’ll raise this at the next one – I promise!
As for the FP as a whole:
I felt I could be more provocative in this meeting, and maybe interject a few more times too. The truth is, I only really thought of some pertinent comebacks to JM’s answers AFTER I’ve walked out the door! (eg Harry Maguire debacle as someone raised above. What happened there?!)
In truth, it has been a pretty tough time personally, so I don’t feel my head was ‘on it’ in the meeting. It was a challenge getting out the door if I’m honest. BUT, I will be back on form for the next one. Again, that’s a promise.
Jez Moxey:
It seems to be clear that we will not pay over what we feel are the odds for a player, having had our fingers burnt so badly in the past. (as short a time ago as Solbakken when buying Margrietter / Boukari / Doumbia / Sigurdarrson)
Then there is the Mick McCarthy era which is still haunting us today.
I could bring up the way that Mick, in particular, was never held accountable for so many dire signings and was allowed to squander so much on transfer fees and operate in a bubble that alienated so many (including players). I.E. Do your job Jez and CHALLENGE the bloke a bit more before it all went so horribly wrong.
I’ve written more blogs on this subject that I can remember though and you all know my thoughts. I accept today that we move on. It’s happened and the club is structured differently today.
From my old position of genuinely disliking Moxey my stance has softened.
I neither see him as some sort of of financial god, nor the scourge of all our evils (I do think he is paid an obscene amount of money for the size of our club and the parameters Kenny Jackett works within as manager – bit of a juxta position right there IMO.
But for me, I think the following is the easiest way of describing where we are today:
We started the season too well! Had we have struggled like we are now back in August, a bid for a Callum Wilson (someone of his ilk) would have been made with a great degree of urgency. We didn’t ‘need’ him like we do today.
Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing and we could all see we were light up front when Dicko was fit. A contingency for Dicko should be better than Clarke / McAlinden for sure, but I have some sympathy with the club for not being able to lure in some of these targets we all need today, when we really weren’t crying out for them back then.
Yes, the loan window was shambolic, granted.
I’m no Moxey apologist, as I’m sure you’re aware (I’ve almost come to blows over him in years gone by!) but I just don’t see how finishing mid-table and being a bit more sustainable is such a bad thing anymore.
Maybe what’s happened to me personally puts a new perspective on things for me, but the days of a) wanting instant success and b) wanting to know where those parachute payments / why we built a pointless new stand / etc etc have died. I’ve no fight left in me to keep pursuing that.
From a position of nearly falling out with our club in 2011/12, we’ve done a heck of a lot of good, mainly through Kenny Jackett. If we can consolidate (yes, consolidate – cringe?!) and blood the hugely impressive Iorfa, bring in the brick sh*t Hause in at the back next term, integrate the new lad from Villa, and continue that upwardly mobile line graph of progression then that’s good enough for me.
Ben,
Reading between the lines all does not appear well in the Ben camp, if It’s so then put down the pen and concern yourself with your personal life, family or work comes first before anything else. We bloggers can middle along in our own sweet way.
You are a great bloke and I’m certain your welfare is important to all of us.
Also, you know where the Park View is. We will be there if required.
If I am out of order and I’m reading things totally wrong, then forgive my intrusion.
StuWolf
Very sorry to hear you’ve been going through a bad time Ben.
I’ve no idea what it is, and I can understand you may not wish to talk about it, but you can be sure that theDOOGooder household is sending positive waves in your direction.
Chin up mate!
I agree with both StuWolf and theDOOGooder. Take time out mate if you need to. We are not going anywhere.
Take care buddy.
Ben,
Whatever is going on/has gone on, you need to take care of yourself and your family. Neither the blog nor Wolves are as important as that. If I can help, please tweet me. Most of all, don’t be disheartened by the less well informed comments on this blog. It is easier to carp than take responsibility.
I wish you well, Jerry
I hear what you say and yes it’s better to consolidate and stay half way but we are better than that..(as a club) arnt we….
We are in the same category as Stoke West Brom Villa Swansea Hull def West Ham QPR etc (lower half premier – budget restrained)
We belong with them…
COYW
ben Thanks for the update, I think we all appreciate your efforts and your feedback enlightens us far more than the minutes as what is actually going on. There is a line in a Bob Dylan song ‘ a con man is on friendly terms in 10 minutes with every stranger he meets’. (lyrics to that effect) Jez Moxey is no con man but I am sure he is very convincing and personable. That of course does not mean he has done a good job in the transfer market for the last 14 years. Make no mistake this principle of holding out for bargains or cheaper deals in the market has been with us since the day Jez first arrived. A deal was in place at the time to sign a young and highly promising Shefki Kuqi for a low transfer fee. Moxey scuppered the deal due to not agreeing to an agent’s demands. Kuqi went on to play in the Premier for many years and command multi million transfer fees. Jez has been scuppering decent deals for players ever since. McCarthy wanted to sign Carroll, when he was a reserve at Newcastle, young McCarthy now at Everton, Lallana, Clyne (both now England players) and don’t forget Scott Dann, when he was a medical with us and Moxey would not match a revised offer from the Blues. McCarthy had to make do with second or third or fourth choice targets in the main. It was just the same this summer, Kenny Jackett wanted Wood, Wilson or Bamford but had to initially make do with Sagbo. As for all the French guys the problem wasn’t the fee the problem was none of them were any good except Sako. The Jez Moxey way of doing business has let us down on many occasions and is the main reason our football has relatively underperformed. Problem is we keep making the same mistakes,will it be any better next time round ? I hope so,but doubt it.
Bit gobsmacked by the mellowed out Ben.Hope everything goes well for you mate from a Wolves buddy.
Using an iPhone when scrolling through does have its drawbacks on this fantastic blog…
It takes an age these days to scroll to the bottom as quickly as possible, (when I’ve read the previous posts at an earlier time of course), due to so many quality bloggers views and then I notice that I have the accidental cockup when I like someone’s post while scrolling (as my thumb is that same area) to find that I have just “liked” a post that I did not fully agree with as a their post was a tad bullshit… So anyone wondering why someone has a liked a certain post, when their point is supported by BS… It’s probably me that did it!
(although I do understand the basis of his post of not getting what you wish for is a valid argument), I feel such a raise in pay would be a little OTT, even for Bankers that I suspect don’t use the Trade Union and they have their topups in bonuses, not hourly pay.
(Moral) of my story is to use something other than a handheld apple product.
Can we have a thumbs up and a thumbs down option? That way if I do accidentally hit someone’s post I should not have, I could nullify my vote! Or is a thumbs down too negative?
Looking at all the posts fails to convince me moxey is doing anything than what he is employed to do. If he had a bottom less pit of money you could see spectacular deals. Other wise what is his remit?
Ben, some strong comments above, I can’t remember such infighting and dissent on this blog. You seem to have problems at your end, but I hope not. I thought you did a good job and for once Moxey came out with something candid, although he did hold back on other matters. You got an admission of sorts out of him (about Sagbo) so well done! To all fans on the site, you did your best Ben, and we shouldn’t shoot the messenger.
Good luck Ben with whatever event it is you are having to deal with. my thoughts go out to you and what is obviously a difficult and upsetting time.