If we’ve learnt one painfully obvious lesson from our return to the Premier League, then it’s that you have to be 100% flawless to stand an outside chance of a point against Liverpool.
Statistics say they’re one of the most daunting sides in Premier League history. The naked eye suggests they’re mechanically perfect, like a Ferrari designed by Da Vinci.
On last night’s evidence, we looked like a Seat Ibiza with a spray paint, lacking any sort of code to keep up.
In fact, it was the Coad of Conor who made the first fatal error and against a machine like this, it’s one too many to even dream of sharing the spoils thereafter.
The Premier League’s supercar then screeched off into the distance in party mode, with too many Wolves players left to look like objects in the rear view mirror. Wanderers fan George Russell’s cruel puncture in his maiden Mercedes drive an hour earlier was an untimely coincidence, but in F1 terms, this 4-0 drubbing represented an out-and-out breakdown.
Unlike the F1, there’s no yellow flag Anfield to slow things down and refuel, only more unremitting attacks to stretch the gap until we’d pretty much been lapped. Wijnaldum, Matip, then a Semedo own goal made it mission impossible against this unerring side which is wired up to win and never seems to tire.
The second goal was a case in point, as we actually pressed Liverpool successfully in a rare dose of their own medicine, only for the ball to ricochet kindly into their path. Within a matter of seconds, the ball is nestling in the top corner of Rui’s net as if the returning Kop had placed it there by hand.
There’s no disgrace in conceding like that against a flying machine on 64-game unbeaten home run, but to be so far off the pace for 90 minutes – give or take a fleeting moment of promise – was a disappointing sight.
Nelson Semedo in particular was more carthorse than race car, putting in a genuinely concerning performance which still fails to shake off the nagging worry that he’s actually incapable of defending. And whilst Moutinho and Neves looked tidy whenever we found their feet, we were just squeezed into too many careless mistakes by a team that makes you feel claustrophobic just watching them. Dendoncker, with and without the ball, was another one below the required levels.
Sadly, you have to be absolutely perfect to induce a scouse software error. We weren’t, and a 4-0 drubbing thereafter is the remorseless result, transcending system, shape or personnel.
Yes, we desperately missed the presence and talismanic figure of Raul, but to quote an old manager now plying his trade in Nicosia, ‘they were just better than us!’
Before the game, the optimist pointed to a number of Liverpool absentees and a chance to pass them down the slipstream with our pace. The realist says that it doesn’t matter a Jota if your own team is stuck in second gear.
You’re right mate – Liverpool were excellent. I felt we were on the cusp of conceding every time they came forward. That front three ask so many questions and attack from every angle. No complaints about the result or the margin.
A terrible error from Coady but we were right in it until that second goal and can take positives from some decent approach work at times.
The absence of Raul or any recognised striker was painfully obvious though. My thought – granted, with hindsight – is that Nuno should either have stuck with the XI that got it done at Arsenal with Fabio starting upfront or gone with a back 5 to contain properly and break. He went somewhere in between and we got neither the attacking thrust nor the defensive stability.
I’m with you on Semedo. Terrible performance, albeit against the outstanding attacker in the league in Mane. What a nightmare he must be to defend against. But it’s the lack of aggression and awareness that is worrying from a player who has done it at a higher level. I don’t think it helps to have Traore ahead of him who does little to help out defensively, but still, we can rightfully expect better. He got caught upfield a few times too and lost the ball in bad areas. A night to forget.
Thank you mate. I thought Semedo was awful at Arsenal too, but I didn’t want to say anything for fear of ruining the moment.
You can tell I have just remembered the name Ki-Jana Hoever: When is he going to get a run out?! What was the thinking behind that signing if he’s not going to figure? I’d like to think he’ll be featuring soon. The irony is he’d have almost certainly been playing in the red of Liverpool last night had he stayed there – and most probably shining.
Some of the Home End comments on the preview post were prophetic; one thing we are good at on this blog is building up our expectation levels on the back of several bang average results. Loved the analogies Ben, it brightens up a painful morning of reflection. Tough run of fixtures to come and we will have more setbacks, but keep the faith.
Thank you Woodend Wolf! I thought I was stretching it a bit with the old motorsport analogy, but I committed to it, shoved the DRS on and went full throttle with it. Shit, I am doing it again, ha ha!
I had a feeling it was going to be one of those nights before we kicked off.
I coach a young football team and in the morning, we travelled to Hagley to play a side in the middle of the league (we were top, albeit after just four games). It was the perfect storm!
Missed chances, concede to the first attack, dodgy penalty given, no subs, lad went off injured, ended up with nine men and it all fell apart. Lol!
It was a reminder that football can be one cruel mistress, but I enjoyed seeing those boys deal with the adversity. Freezing cold, covered in mud and they looked like they didn’t know what had hit them! God bless them!
They’ll learn. I hope Wolves will learn too, as there were one or two lessons to take from that drubbing.
I don’t want to look too deep into it, as Liverpool are a phenomenal side. We’ll be better next week. We better had be!
That’s the spirit! I well remember those cold weekend mornings supporting junior rugby for 10 years with our youngest son. He played with and against players who are now England Internationals. Thankfully, he has the old gold and black in his DNA too. Character building for all concerned and life lessons about respect, teamwork and never quitting until the whistle blows for full time. So to get to my point about context- the Wolves starting 11 and subs have all represented their respective countries at some level? This is an outstanding endorsement of Nuno’s recruitment policy and successful coaching. I would never have expected to witness a Wolves team with such an array of talent. Still gelling as a team, looking forward to return of Jonny ( at right back, Marcel is a proper defender) with Nelson operating in midfield, we will have better balance then. I was thoroughly impressed by the lads still taking the game to Liverpool, creating openings, right to the very end. I don’t ask for any more than that. Lick your wounds boys and make the Villa pay.
I’m not keen on I Told you So’s but….
I’d forgive Coady for running over our family pet he’s been so good for us for so long but in all honesty even without his apparent brain fart we were still going to be put back in our slightly over inflated box.
We’re a decent premiership outfit but unless we’re at the top of our game and the likes of Liverpool have an early evening nap we’re as far away from beating them as we are to losing to Chorley!!!
Without Raul doing what only Raul can we look disjointed and add to that just four (mostly) at the back and we were always going to be in trouble.
This is the moment we hope to see why Nino gets the big bucks – we really do need solutions, and fast!
I’m off to lick my smug wounds.
As ever Ben good summary. I have calmed the temper and lowered my blood pressure now, even deemed to ((begrudgingly) say well done to my Liverpudlian future son in law.
There were some positive things from last night, at times we did show glimpses of a team with flair and style. Another positive is that Conor won’t be signing for Liverpool, now the Kop hate him for trying to win a penalty.. even though it is part of the CV requirement for a scouse.
May get mullered for this but, we are starting to look like a mid to lower half team sometimes, not top 4 or 6. We lost our confidence when captain marvel made an uncharacteristic error. We looked pedestrian at times, Nelson was struggling. Biggest annoying thing, the scouse prat saying ‘Give them a footballing lesson’ will be skipping around with his giro grinning with glee.
It’s one game, regroup, learn and kick on… Much to work on at Compton. We will be back with avengence.
Thank you Marnhull. I agree with all you say. I also worry that we can look like a mid to lower half side, especially without Raul. But I try and see the bigger picture as I’m sure you do too, and see this as a year of transition. I know it’s probably unpalatable to admit this, but I’d take a mid-to-lower half finish as long as we’re in the league and are building for an assault on the top six a year from now.
You can’t rush youth and experience doesn’t come overnight. Look at Henderson at Liverpool alone…Wasn’t he widely ridiculed years ago and was on the chopping block and about to be sold? Their team has evolved over time, and I expect ours to do so also (albeit not as spectacularly!)
Ait-Nouri and Semedo will improve as full backs, Kilman too, not to mention Neto and Podence. The green shoots are definitely there. Traore is also a phenomenal talent.
A reinvigorated Neves would help too, as he’s dropped off of late. People forget he’s also a kid. Vitinho? Who knows!
Just these players above, in a year or two’s time, will surely be a real handful. Aided with a good signing or two and the future is an exciting one.
My worry is signings. We have consistently got it wrong in the transfer market and I can’t help but shake the feeling that Fabio Silva is going to go down as a terrible signing as I just don’t see one redeeming feature in his game. When Traore fought off opponents and fed him, only for Robertson to effortlessly get to the ball first, despite it being a 60/40 ball, was depressing. Fabio looked like he was towing a caravan. BUT, I know it is early days and he needs games.
Finally, Ki-Jana Hoever is a player I want to see more of. Had he stayed at Liverpool he’d have almost certainly been playing in that fixture last night. He came with such a high reputation, yet can’t get a sniff. A penny for his thoughts?!
But overall, I do think we will be much better than a mid-table side, but it’s going to take a year or so and a fair amount of patience.
You mention Vitinha Ben, and I thought he looked pretty good in his cameo.
Yes, Vitinha looked promising but by then the power of prayer from all the Wolves fans “Please let’s not get beat by 5-0” had filtered through and Liverpool had eased off the gas. Talk to a sensible scouser and you’ll hear that the Kop was loud and hasn’t had the chance to celebrate winning the league last year yet so it wound up the team to slaughter anybody who turned up. As it was a mid table outfit in unrecognisable colours they went to town. If it had been Wolverhampton Wanderers they might have shown more respect.
Liverpool were very good last night, they would have beaten any other team in the Prem. The issue is obvious for us, the number 9 vacancy which robs us of a focal point when we get the ball, all our players know they can usually look up and find Raul. Does the answer lie within the club , amongst the loanees or at another club. Will Andre Silva finally sign for the Wolves?
Spot on Ben and thanks for the reply. We have all been around long enough to have witnessed far too many false dawns with WWFC. These days we seem to have a better strategy which will pay off.
Must admit, as I didn’t want to sound pessimistic, I am concerned on our transfer dealings…. But, bigger footballing brains than mine will sort it out.
As they say on the Northern soul circuit, keep the faith.
Ben agree totally our transfer policy has concentrate for to much on ” ones for the future ” the injury to Raul has cruelly exposed this.
Also some players haven’t kicked on like we expected and the last three windows have been average at best and you don’t get in the top 6 by being average.
The transfer policy needs to be looked at for instance we don’t seem to look at the British market at all these days unless there kids.
And FOSUN really need to invest for the here and now and not concentrate on future sell on value when buying players that should only be a bonus not a priority.
In the Jolly Boys Outing episode of Only Fools And Horses when they are in Raquel’s flat after Del punches The Great Raymondo Rodney says to Del “Well this time I reckon ‘he who dares wins’ has cocked it right up”. That is how I feel about Wolves right now. We have cocked it right up.
On Christmas Day it will be 60 years since I became a Wolves fan. Can’t think of another time when I’ve felt so angry. We have taken something on the verge of potential greatness and ruined it. Our transfer business was absolutely pathetic. We are now far, far weaker than last season.
Sold Doherty, one of the best right backs in the league, and spent a fortune on a right back who looks good going forward but who can’t defend. Didn’t sign competition for Jimenez but spent a fortune on an untried kid who isn’t even thought good enough to start despite Jimenez being out and him being our only central striker. We sold Jota, which was a dreadful decision, and so are playing with Neto and Podence who, whilst decent, are both very lightweight and do not carry anywhere near the same goal threat as Jota. We didn’t sign a right sided centre back meaning that our defence is lopsided with Boly, Kilman and Saiss all left footers. Our substitutes bench at Anfield was largely like a crèche. There are so many things that are wrong.
Instead of building on the last three fantastic years and taking the opportunity of no European football distractions to push on for the top 4 or top 6 we have instead gone backwards and will be lucky to finish in the top 14 let alone the top half. 4-0 at West Ham, 4-0 at Liverpool. Awful. Watching us this season is a chore instead of something to look forward to. Last season we ran the runaway champions Liverpool close in both matches and probably deserved a point in both games but last night the chasm that now exists was obvious for all to see.
Our next five games include playing Chelsea, Spurs and Man Utd so that’s probably three heavy defeats for starters. Villa next week? God help us! They are far far better than us sadly. But how? Last season we were light years ahead of them – but they strengthened wisely and we committed transfer suicide. Maybe we might sneak one point at Burnley? Maybe. Please no one try and argue that we did good transfer business. Please no one try and argue that we have improved on last season. Angry? No, furious. Really, really furious.
The bubble has well and truly burst for me. I rely on Wolves to cheer me up and bring some joy into an otherwise pretty miserable life right now but all they are doing is making me even more miserable and depressed. Our next 5 games = LLDLL. At this rate we will be in the relegation dogfight by New Year.
OODC………?
I disagree Dave. We are NOT going backwards. We have more points now than we had at this stage in all previous seasons. In my opinion I believe that we are still reorganizing too. I am upset at losing key players but that ALWAYS happens. I also stand with my belief that we will finish in the top six. If we do not I will not post on here again…. maybe.
That sounds like an invitation for a bet Steve! If we finish in the top 6 you win and if we don’t I win. Shall we say a pint (assuming we are ever allowed to meet up again)?
Sure thing buddy. I will even travel to Bedford if I win lol.
Take care mate.
That’s a big call Brompton Wolf! Just remember I cherished the time we spent together ?
Shhhhh, you promised not to tell.
Notice the final word though!!!
Hi Bedders. I can understand the frustrations, but I do think a bit of context is needed. We were playing a side who are incredibly strong, with players who have won everything there is to win in the game. They’re phenomenal.
As for being angrier than at any time: I remember being a damn sight angrier when I watched Adlene Guedioura smash one in from 30yds at the South Bank end for Forest in the season we went down to League One, having sold him for half the fee we bought him for and were playing David Davis and co instead. We used to shoot ourselves in the foot every week under Morgan and Moxey, taking wrong decision after wrong decision with seemingly no understanding of the smallest nuance of the game. Listening to Jez was worse than listening to the Tories justifying their handling of the pandemic, at times at least. It was newspeak, and us fans were usually the ones getting slagged off for our failings. Those days make me angry just reminiscing about them and thank God they’re long gone.
BUT, I get your point, especially re: signings. Nobody can sugar coat the fact that we’ve got a number of windows wrong and our incomings this summer are either not anywhere near starting or just not suggesting they’re any better than what went before. When it comes to evolution, it’s not a good sign.
But as I have waffled on to Marnhull, I do think patience is required and I see enough in most of the players to suggest we’ll have a really mobile and attack minded side on our hands. It just won’t come overnight. I think it needs a year, personally. If we take a step back to take those steps forward then I’m happy with that.
I have a hunch that Owen Otasowie is going to be a real talent for us, while surely Ki-Jana Hoever will be a big player for us? Ait Nouri needs time, and relationships need time to blossom.
So basically, I think we’re watching a team in transition, and I like the general DNA I’m seeing. We just need patience IMHO.
Brilliant. I can see why you’re a journo. You said what I have been trying to say but betterer.
There’s nothing like a good hiding to send Wolves fans into meltdown!! Semedo struggled badly against Mane but with Robertson joining in untroubled by Traore it felt like he had been chucked under the bus whenever Liverpool attacked. Silva is 18 and still developing physically. He’s not the finished article but new club, away from home in a new country in a much more intensely competitive environment – lets not go back to the old days of destroying players too soon. This game needed the same approach tactically as Man City away last season but we were too open so Nuno is partly to blame – too many players didn’t step up either so you can’t blame him completely. Should also remember we had a net spend of c £15m in the last window. Arsenal spend that on Ozil every season. Nuno does need to get the blend right without Raul and while the second half was a shocker he knows that. Solving it is what he’s paid for. Also looking forward to seeing Otasawie but lets give him some breathing space.
Last season some Wolves fans were saying Diogo wasn’t up to it. Tommy Rowe and George Saville anyone?
Yep! Swapping Doherty for Semedo was a real mug’s move.
Just why was it done?
Bedford,
Great blog I warned this was going to happen this is what happens when you invest just for profit and not for the here and NOW.
Our transfer policy is all based around future profit not the team and in some ways i’m assuming is not just Nuno’s fault but he is culpable by not speaking out if he is not happy.
Every team has kicked on Everton, Villa and look at Southampton.
This is again why I have questioned FOSUN commitment because as much as they have invested they have infact not lost any money they have Made profit certainly on transfers plus they are getting a percentage of there money back from Mendez as they are share holders.
I agree we have gone backwards but until FOSUN prove they are genuine in there ambition ist not going to change .
This 10 year plan why……..? Why ten years FOSUN have the wealth to make us great NOW if they wanted to they just have to invest. They are big enough to deal with the Financial Fair play rules City did.
I’m still not convinced they are our savours.
Its a very unforgiving league if you get it wrong.
One thing is for sure is that players on the cusp of the first team are getting a run out and although not completely polished yet ,some of the younger players look as if they will eventually become regulars.
Its also obvious that its stretching Nunos abilities which also is a good thing.
I’m not overly bothered that we lost to a team which looks unbeatable..
This is just a time for some changes
I think you’ve made my point in a line or two, as I waffle on in War and Peace style! I agree!
I thought we pretty much matched them in the first half and if it had been different in those two key moments, the game may have panned out differently too. If Podence’s superb chip had eluded the keepers fingertips and Coady had headed away instead of being too clever by half, it could have been us one up and anything could happen.
However, once the second went in, we capitulated and despite some flashes of good play, we were totally outclassed.
Disappointing, but games at Anfield tend to be that way.
Good summary Ben.
I’ve been a defender of Semedo since he’s come to the club, arguing on his behalf that it takes time to bed in, that he’ll improve and that we’ve seen flashes of top level full back that we know he is.
Last night he was a shambles. I didn’t think he contributed anything of note going forward and was, quite frankly, a liability at defending. Now I know he had the toughest job on the pitch defending against the outstanding Robertson and the brilliant Mane, but you can tell the difference between a player is good enough and just being outplayed between a player who just doesn’t appear to be good enough. He’s doesn’t offer anything. Remember we got this lad from Barca not Barnsley.
Between him and boly I lost count of the amount of times they gave the ball away and got caught out of position.
Yes it’s Liverpool and anfield is almost the impossible place to get anything from, but come on, the defending from semedo boly and Coady was at times laughable.
I’m loathed to lay into players as i usually am a glass half full fan but last night was worrying how we just completely tailed off and had no real direction. Much for Nuno to think on.
The two things I’m taking a little comfort from are that I thought Marcal was steady and looks like the most reliable defender at the minute and that it was Liverpool we were outclassed by and not a team struggling at the bottom.
A good performance against Villa and this game is quickly forgotten.
Get it sorted Nuno.
Rant over.
Plus points:
1) We didn’t get beat by five – my definition of a thrashing;
2) Jota didn’t score; and
3) er… that’s it.
We obviously missed Raúl and we seemed strangely hesitant and lightweight against a very good Liverpool team, but to repeat what’s been said before on this blog, we are a team in transition. For what it’s worth I think Neto is a star in the making and a joy to watch, and the young players we’ve signed will come good and we’ll be a stronger team for them. It’s going to be a bumpy season, but we will get there.
The thing that did get my goat was the sight of Liverpool supporters getting on their high horse – a bit of a chimera of a sentence this – about Coady’s dive. I mean, Salah always stays on his feet doesn’t he? Coady had a bit of a mare, but he’s a great skipper and a decent human being.
Bring on the Villa! UTW
Glass half full me:-
I think the crowd really helped Liverpool, and they all hate Conor now for imitating (rather badly) Mo Salah in front of The Kop. So they’ve crossed him off their Christmas list.
We were in the game until Coady made his totally out of character mistake.
If the Donck had better directed his two headers at goal before our capitulation, we would possibly have got something out of the game.
Neto looked good again and Moutinho did well.
Glass half empty me:-
Nelson Semedo is NOT a defender. Him and Traore on the same side of the pitch is a disaster waiting to happen.
Willy Boly is NOT the defender he was.
Neves does NOT suit a more forward midfield role.
We desperately need a number nine. If it’s Silva, get him on from the start.
Glass empty me:-
We miss Diogo Jota (I know… but we do).
We miss Matt Doherty (I know… but we do).
I dread the next few games.
We aint going to pick up many points if we show such a lack of backbone as we did last night.
No glass at all me:-
What’s going to become of us all?
PS. Where’s my glass gone?
i like you now dont have a glass as i was drinking straight from the bottle last night after watching that shower !
Maybe it was the Raul hangover or shock I don’t know but that was not a performance to relish. Woeful defending & like everyone says if we’re going for a back four a better defender than Semedo has to be found at right back.
Hope Nuno can reset them in time for the Villa game. But last nights display was as bad as I’ve seen from Wolves for a while. They lacked heart, fight and real determination to hurt Liverpool.
It’s the loss of Jonny & Doc that seems, to me, to be the biggest difference in quality from last season. Even though, ironically we’re 2 points better off this time round than last season.
The big question is will he be brave enough to stick with a back 4? Is there a Wunderkid in the Under 23’s who can set our world alight by filling Raul’s boots.? Thus far Fabio has not quite got the presence nor the experience to make things happen at this level.
In Nuno we trust but he’s got some hard work to do at training this week, & then he has to find a solid team to maul Villa.
Playing against the best team in Europe (Could be argued the world) and we was Toe to Toe with them until the second goal (first was a rare mistake).
It was evident we miss our Number 9 – But there is a lot of positives to take from this game.
We are like a budget type of liverpool – In the sense of the counter attacking spirit, we just are not as polished… yet.
I still do not accept Podence to be a valuable player.
(GIVING HIM A FREE ROLE AND SAYING HE PLAYED GOOD IN SAID FREE ROLE DOES NOT MAKE HIM VALUABLE – We need someone to rely on)
Ref above I meant the 18/19 season not last season!
Im not particularly bothered about the result, we didn’t play well Connor made a rare bad mistake and we never recovered. I can forgive the odd bad performance it happens.
What is concerning me is we have spent £70 mill on two players who haven’t improved the team. We have no replacement for Raul if Silva isnt going to replace him when Raul is injured. I understand that the kid has potential but we desperately need cover now and we dont have it.
The right back position is a strange one, £35 mill for the Barcelona right back seemed crazy we could even do that deal but for me hes no where near as good as Doc.
You make some very good points apart from your opening statement. I think most of us are extremely bothered about the result. As for me, well I’ve never heard such language during a game (!) and have been so bothered about the result that I turned the TV off at the end of the game, I’ve not read a single report and only dared look at this blog some 48 hours after the game. Must be something to do with a dyed in the wool Wolves fan of 54 years and counting.
To finish I can see that all of our youngsters have obvious potential apart from our £35m boy. I just can’t credit it, I’m afraid, and as no one else has mentioned it yet, I will. He’s as slow as a cart horse. He can develop physically yes, but you can’t develop speed and that’s very much a prerequisite for a top 21st century forward. I do hope I’m wrong but 54 years and counting says not.
Particularly worrying for me that Podence was completely ineffective. And then there’s Traore. If he doesn’t produce the mazy dribbles that set up goals, he’s a passenger. Destined to remain the rough diamond I’m afraid.
While I’m at it, what’s happened to Neves? Should have had L’pool’s water boy, Henderson, in his pocket for the evening.
Also, you know you’re having a bad one when Matip copes fairly well and the rookie goalie has a trouble-free night.
Massively disappointed, as are we all I guess.
It is obvious we are a team in transition. Take a look at Leicester City. After they won the league in 2016 they had a couple of indifferent seasons in lower half/mid table. Now they have rebuilt and are back in the top six. We are likely to have some mixed results and performances whilst we do the same. Having said all that we are still on target for the same number of points as last season. Current estimate around 58/59 points. Last night was painful but until the second goal I felt we were in the game. Once that went in the Red steamroller just smashed our resistance. Saturday brings Tom Daley and his mates to the temple. Let’s put last night to bed and move on.
Great report. For me it was a game of two very contrasting halves:
Strange to think that we were ahead in the shots stats after 23 minutes and Podence’s chip required a brilliant finger tip save from Liverpool’s rookie goalkeeper and up until then I had not been unduly alarmed in defense. Then the Coady mistake and we were behind though once we had settled again it was fairly even into half-time.
Second half was a nightmare and has subsequently dominated all our thoughts as after 70 minutes we were probably all fearing more Liverpool goals with their incisive breaks.
Time to do a bit of debugging. We don’t need a complete rewrite though, we were running in an extreme environment where every syntax error was cruely exposed. We just need to fix a few bugs and run the code again against Mr Tumble and his Tier 2 illegal dinner date. The FA do sweet FA, let’s hope we can punish the villans.
Looks like I have to come on here and cooly assess the situation and prevent some of you from having terrible hangovers tomorrow.
Firstly, I thought the Liverpool fans singing Si Senior was great. I appreciated that.
Secondly, people tend to get carried away with a good game or a bad game. We have a lot of good games and a lot of bad games but that does not mean we are going to win the league or get relegated.
Thirdly, I thought we got off to a very good start, instead of our usual nothing first halves. Unfortunately, Conor’s mistake seemed to put us in a situation where we were going to have to score to get anything out of the game.
Fourthly, I know Fabio is one for the future but is there anyone else who is NOW actually better as a forward who can come on? Nuno has to ignore potential and use the best CURRERNT talent. How good Fabio might be in 5 years is irrelevant – we want the best we have in the organization now.
Fifthly, we shouldn’t be in a transition year just because we lost 2 players. Neto might have more goals now than Diogo had at this time last season. Matt didn’t even make the bench yesterday, from what I read.
I think that the Kop’s rendition of “Si Señor” was their song for Firmino, Tim.
Not for Raul.
I thought I heard Mexico.
It is I think impossible to overstate the significance of Raul`s injury. Not only has he been the main source of our goals, but without him we lack any focal point up front. This in turn directly affects the performance of those attackers around him. They have no one to feed off, and become ineffective.
Throughout the last twelve months we have seen on this site continuing concerns as to the calamity which would certainly follow a serious injury to Raul, simply because we had no back up. How could we have been so naive in the summer not to have properly addressed this issue ? To have laid out so much cash on a kid who has had zero experience beyond junior football, whilst completely ignoring the urgent present requirement, surely represents negligence on a massive scale.
The young boy may well have a great future ahead of him, but this cannot be guaranteed. How many young wonderkids do we know of who never make the big transition !! But what is very clear is that as of now he is nowhere near ready to step up into Raul`s shoes. In fact it is hugely unfair to expect him to do so.
There would appear to be no short term solution. But I for one have considerable faith in Nuno. Time I think for him to produce another rabbit out of the hat.
The result is neither her or there in terms of where we are at as a team. As previously stated I think we are probably mid table to outside shot of Europe this season so this game won’t define our season. I’m glad people on here are finally waking up to Semedo though. I’ve said on here since his first game that his defensive positioning concerns me- particularly for a 35m acquisition. I’m not mourning the loss of Doherty as what is done is done but purely from a value for money perspective what we recouped for Doherty versus what we paid for Semedo is pitiful. Semedo will look ok against poorer opposition where we are dominant but against good quality opposition where we have to defend for spells he is an accident waiting to happen. For me he falls into the Cutrone camp and will be gone within 12 months .
Gonna piss off a lot on here, but I don’t give a shit.
I thought the bloke who had the biggest mare of a game was Nuno.
Playing Adama down the wing is great, as long as he gets to the by line and crosses.
Which he did.
Unfortunately, one pre supposes that you actually have a forward or two capable of outjumping a defense and heading the ball goalwards.
We had possible the two smallest players in the league.
Wrong tactic # 1.
When you have a player, or players, capable of speed and dribbling, such as Neto and Adama, and to some extent Danny Boy, why oh why are they not instructed to head for the box, as quickly as possible?
Get inside, shoot, get tackled or fouled.
Simples.
Every other team does it, gets their unfair share of penalties and scores a few goals.
If it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for us.
Bollocks to the purists who say it’s cheating.
var is cheating.
time wasting is cheating.
Diving is cheating.
Pretending to be shot as per grealish is cheating.
But it’s the way the game is played now, so why don’t we get on board?
Wrong tactic # 2.
Max Kilman has looked calm and collected and polished this season.
Poor old Wily Boly quite the opposite.
A change should have been made in the starting line up.
Wrong tactic # 3.
Nuno, not one of your finest hours.
However, unlike the myriad of morons all over other media outlets, most of whom cannot even spell Nuno out, but spew forth their vitriol every time we concede a corner, I take heart that our magician will pull rabbits out of his hat, and rectify the situation.
When teams start giving us the respect we showed Liverpool, by being nervous nellies all game, then we will have made it.
I loathe and detest losing, but what don’t kill ya makes ya stronger, and we ain’t dead.
Keep the faith, boys and girls, Nuno will get it right.
Nice to see my fave score line from the poorthorns this weekend.
And Diogo and Matt ain’t coming back, thank dog.
The good news –
Raul seemingly doing well.
We played pretty well, but only for 20 minutes.
It was always likely to be pointless so no ground lost apart from goal difference.
It could have been a heavier defeat.
Jota didn’t score.
No more injuries (just as well).
The bad news –
We have spent 18 months and around £55 million looking for the well known requirement for Raul’s backup and come up with Cuitrone, who looks like a potential write off and Fabio Silva who clearly in Nuno’s eyes is not ready for the job. No criticism aimed at Fabio just at the policy of only buying “ones for the future” when we need quality squad players for the here and now. If there was ever any doubt last night proved that 3 wingers at the front won’t work in the PL. So we have dug a big hole for ourselves with our own hands which indicates serious flaw in this strategy.Especially when the “ones for the future” are sold as soon as they fully mature (Jota who could have played down the middle, albeit differently).
Mssrs. Shi, Espirito de Santo and Mendes please come up with answers to this mess that your avowed policy of future at the expense of the present has now created, because less than a goal a game = trouble.
PJB,
I said this months ago and got lambasted by almost every one on this Blog.
And Raul injury has exposed the folly of our transfer policy.
Paul
I know, but the diehards can’t ( don’t want to) see the wood for the trees. You have to sustain the present AT THE SAME TIME AS MOVING INTO THE FUTURE. Its the only way to progress.
And god knows we didn’t expect what happened to RJ but he was always going to be missing on occasions. Mir, Cuitrone, Bonatini, Campana, Dashidov, Silva – £65 million and apparently not one of them up to the job at present. Some super agent! And Jota to Liverpool to add insult to injury.
Because of where we are in the world football food chain we have to offer a route to the Liverpools of this world otherwise we simply won’t attract the exceptional young talent we’re now beginning to take for granted.
Rather than bemoaning their loss I’d be more inclined to celebrate the fact that a mid sized town in the Black Country can attract them in the first place.
It shows potential future signings that if they shine at Wolves they will get their dream move.
So we are a feeder club now is that what your saying. Well that’s cheered me up…!
Your post indicates that you are happy for Wolves to be a selling club which does not fit in with the “grand plan” laid out before us in 2017.
As for the exceptional young talent we are attracting the only one who has made it all the way so far is Jota, with maybe Vinagre and Kilman on the verge. Plenty of potential but most of the other incomers have either fallen by the wayside or were already established stars. Have I missed something?
And WWFC does not just draw it’s support from the Black Country but from all over the Midlands – notably Staffs, Shropshire, Cheshire, Worcs and Herefordshire as well as North and mid Wales. And one of Fosun’s reasons for choosing Wolves is because it’s a single city club.
You are in danger of underestimating the power of the mighty Wolves; we are not just a mid sized Black Country town club (are you thinking of WBA). Don’t sell us short.
Exactly PJB. I know it’s ages ago
but weren’t we hailed as World Champions in some quarters in the mid fifties? And weren’t the current self styled world champions just a mediocre div 2 club?
I was joking……..but that is what your saying if we are buying players just to sell them on later IF they come good means we are a feeder club .
Whilst disappointed with the result, and some individual performances.. the one thing many are missing is ….
PERSPECTIVE……
Agreed we didn’t reach anything like what we’re capable of…. as has been summed above.. once they got the second…. their threat overwhelmed us….
Our closing space down wasn’t there… Traore might offer a threat going forwards but absolutely no cover for Semedo. (Robertson MOTM)….
Our passing and possession was erratic but it was the Coady clanger that changed the game.
Regarding recent transfer business…. what we’ve now got we have to work with….. all the what ifs won’t change a thing.
I prefer to view yesterday as ….
P 2… W 1… L 1… Pts 3.. ie 1.5 pts per game…. playing Arsenal and Liverpool Away!
A win at the weekend and we’ll be on 2pts per game.
My perspective is glass full…. cheers…
Lord Twix
I admire your subjective positive spin – you should be in the cabinet!
Seriously though it’s a fair point, but as above I fear for the immediate future as I just can;’t see where the goals are coming from because it was bad enough before we lost Raul.
Which rogue did you have in mind….?
Please don’t suggest Michael Gove….. he doesn’t even know what a scotch egg looks like….
I understand your points PJB though…. and yes the goals For column is pitiful … and you’re right … and I’m also not sure what the answer is….
Jurgen Klopp joined liverpool six seasons ago taking over a Brendon Rogers side that had just finished sixth after twenty three consecutive seasons of premier league football
In his first three seasons they finished eighth then fourth twice then away they went as it all came together.
Nuno espirito santo took over at wolves three and a bit seasons ago inheriting a side who had just finished fifteenth in the second division .
In his first season he got them promoted to the premier league and in his first season there they finished seventh and the second season in seventh.
Klopps job was made a lot easier than nunos simply because he inherited a side with already established players at a club with a system and staff already in place whereas nuno had to start from scratch ..players ,systems ,staff, the lot .
Would jurgen klopp have achieved at liverpool what nuno has achieved at wolves in the same time frame had the clubs positions been reversed ?….. who knows.
In my eyes what nuno has done for wolverhampton wanderers in such an amazingly short space of time is nothing short of phenomenal .
Almost any decent manager could take over a top club where two thirds of the work has already been done for them but could they do it from nothing like nuno has ?
Truth is they wouldnt bother but nuno did and i for one will accept cock ups like last night and i will accept the cock ups that will come on other nights as nuno forges his way through the minefield that is the premier league.
All managers make mistakes and may even lose their way at times as they experiment to find a way to succeed and that is the way it is at the moment with our club .
Nuno is going to move us on into the next echelon of football and sometimes things will go wrong but never doubt that the ultimate objective is to be at the very same level as the mighty liverpool are or even better ….soon.
Your question will be can nuno take us that far ?
You bet your life he can and he will.
yes…. keep the faith and it wont be long before we are giving liverpool a “football lesson” ! ( scouse git )
Yeah, forgot to mention the arrogant scouse bin dippers.
For all their posturing and posing and “we’re special fans” they are nothing short of reverse snobs.
Thinking they have some dog given right to win everything, when the truth is they have only won the ultimate prize once, the Prem title.
( I haven’t counted the Champions League since it was diluted from the European Cup
)
The only good thing about seeing them sparsely populate the kop was they had to keep their masks on, which hid the inbred looks somewhat.
Any team that loses 7-2 at vile ain’t got nothing to brag about!
Clive
Supporters of the Red teams from either end of the Ship Canal vie with each other to be the most arrogant and obnoxious in the country. I think the one from Salford wins on arrogance but the scouse lot win the obnoxious stakes hands down.
Excellently put. Klopp took over a team with a wealth of good players playing consistently (consistently just below the top three) and took three seasons to get them to the top. This is Nuno’s third season in the Premiership and one of transition.
For those down after last night remember what this Liverpool side can do to you. Many have blamed Coady for the opening goal, but watch and see what Salah does .. he continued his run and anticipated what Coady would do. Half chance created, goal. Likewise the second. Boly charged forward making a challenge but Dendoncker was also running in the opposite direction. Boly’s challenge rebounded off Dendoncker straight to a Liverpool player, who put the ball forward into the space that Boly had vacated. Coady seemed to have made good work of minimising the danger of 3 v 2 when bang, Wijnaldum hit an absolute peach. At that point the Raul hangover kicked into the team as they realised the only way to haul back 2 goals at Anfield was to throw men forward (and how do you score without Raul?), and Liverpool had just shown what happens when you throw men forward.
For those decrying new signings, remember how Nuno tends to operate. Dendoncker, Podence and Neto didn’t emerge until half a season on the training ground. Semedo and Marcal straight into the team. Ait Nouri and Silva with about 20 games of senior football between them, chucked straight in. All without the benefit of a full pre-season. With time they will come good but even Nuno can’t work miracles in a few weeks.
Whilst some above have been critical about a so-called failure to sign an understudy for Jimenez, just look at Spurs. Which proven goalscorer wants to go to Tottenham/Wolves to sit on the bench whilst Kane/Jiminez strut their stuff (which is why Tammy Abraham didn’t come to Molineux). It appears there are no reputable takers. Maybe a half season vacancy might be tempting for somebody ambitious and wanting to make a name for themselves.
I’m sure these are all issues that Nuno and his backroom team are addressing, and assessing the best options. Their track record in not only selecting new recruits, but then improving them, is second to none.
The next few weeks may be difficult, but the second half of the season may well be a surprise for a few of the doubters.
Blimey, up and down or what.
Come on be fair, Andy Robertson was amazing, unstoppable, unflappable last night, he ran Wolves defenders ragged.
Close behind him was Henderson with his precision passing that killed our defence.
Their goalie Uri Geller had a great night between the sticks.
As said above, “we were well up for it right until Coady’s Brain fart and then the second goal killed us off”
I am a huge fan of Semedo, always have been, always will be, but no way can I defend his lack lustre, lazy, indolent performance last night, he was caught out of position too many times last night and strolled about the pitch like a Jota that’s just heard Liverpool are in for him. But neither can I defend a lot of the players on the pitch after goal number two went in.
Liverpool gave us a great lesson last night, a lesson I pray that Nuno heeds, he is still learning the PL game, he is not a cheat, a con man or an over rated over inflated English club manager. He and his team will turn this around, we will improve and he needs to learn about buying better quality for today.
My glass is always half full, but that’s me.
Onwards and Upwards.
Agree with your excellent summary but a little harsh on Nélson? He was busting a gut to support Adama and then found himself against Robertson and Mane when we lost possession, at the wrong end of the pitch. These two Lpool players are world class. I thought he did ok in the circumstances. He almost saved the third goal.
As I say, I am truly a huge fan of his.
I just thought last night he was caught up front too many times and did seem off his usual tidy, clever game.
I did under a thinly veiled disguise point out how amazing Robertson was on the left against Nelson.
Agreed, let’s not go down the road of nailing Nelson. Just put yourself in his boots for a minute:
Not much practice at defending at Barca, just give it to Lio
New country, new language, new club ,new team mates, new League
Covid and everything that entails
Coach wants an attacking wing back but after 10 games decides he wants a conventional full back behind an enigmatic right winger.
Give this young player 12 months to settle, learn and adapt , he clearly cares and wants to do well, he’ll be fine.
Couldn’t agree more BG.
You can see there’s a player there.
New language? The native tongue of Brazilians is Portuguese. Its Coady and Kilman who are learning the new language.
What am I on about? He’s Portuguese of course.
Hi Stu, putting aside Semedo’s performance last night – because everyone can have a bad game- I am intrigued to know why you are a huge fan of Semedo? He hasn’t assisted a goal for us, he hasn’t scored for us and I think he has been caught out of position in every game I’ve seen him play for us resulting in at least two goals. What do you see in him that justifies the price tag?
SCW.
I have watched him closely since his arrival and during every single Portugal game, I find his ball control, speed and clever movement to be a breath of fresh air. Unlike Doherty who slotted into that role much like Jonny (another on I love watching) I’m not sure we should be calling him an attacking wingback. He looks and plays like an attacking midfielder. I have to bow to Nuno’s superior knowledge, but I see that he is played in the AMF position for Portugal and looks so comfortable and silky smooth.
Perhaps like Coady, Nuno will one day move him forwards and slot someone behind him and we may see a more balanced right side.
I have noticed that opposing teams do target him as an achilles heel and drive down that side, Nuno and he will have to work on that.
Good analysis I’d never thought of him as an AMF, perhaps that might be where he comes into his owm
Agree- I posted earlier that when Jonny returns he should be considered at RB ( Marcel is a class act at LB) and push Nélson forward into midfield where is attacking instincts and link play will be more effective. I like him too, he’s not in his best position for this team at this moment.
I have just checked out the weather forecast for Saturday. It says a ‘gentle breeze’. This is extremely worrying as the slightest waft of air will send Greasy tumbling to the ground clutching his leg with agony etched all over his ugly face. My solution is to have our groundsman install large bed springs just under the turf. Thus ensuring Greasy and his latest silly hair will immediately bounce back up again and allow the game to flow whilst he looks at the grass in dismay. With the entire Vile team thrawted by our ‘super-springed’ turf it can only help in the quest for victory.
Oh Connor, you disappoint. That’s not the Wolves way.
How is Semedo an international? How is Dendoncker an international?
Have you seen – same old, same old? Five of the big six occupy five of the six top places. Leicester seems have gate-crashed into the void Arsenal has created.
But there is a short list of others that may break in there also. We are not in that list.
I could not imagine a scenario where, after splashing out big time in the Summer, we’re hoping someone from the U23’s will pop up and change this season’s fortunes.
The main strength of this site is that practically all contributors make
interesting , insightful observations. It is always a good read. There can be no doubt that Liverpool are an excellent side. However, the game may have turned on Coady’s error and Podense’s excellent shot which required an equally superb save.
Once a game is over then comes the speculation about what might have happened if some moment went differently.
It would be interesting to be able to read in depth predictive contributions , not just scores, once the team has been announced , but of course that is impossible.
It would be interesting to know how many contributors can honestly say what they disagreed with once they knew the selected team . For me, the only surprise was the omission of Kilman and that was presumably based on how the team would be set up. I was pleased also to see Marcal. Many of us have questioned
the performances of Semeda and I would not have been surprised to see the young man we signed from Liverpool. I hope he plays in the next game.
However, post match , my main personal reflection was that apart from a few
very positive crosses , which could have been met by players of average height, Traore did not look as though he wanted to be there. We need a talisman at present. A player like Grealish or Wagstaffe, who looks for the ball. Watching Traore off the ball he did not, for me , display much enthusiasm to engage with the game and go looking for the ball. Of course, it may be that he does not have license to do that. For me, he does not seem to enjoy playing. I rarely see him smile or express any emotion. Even when he is dumped on the floor, he just looks plaintively at the referee.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it. .We start a game full of hope.
Hope that everyone plays well. Hope the opposition has an off day. Hope VAR rules in our favour and so on….But this is football !
Liverpool are probably the top team in the world at present, in spite of losing several key players. Their players were all on song, slick , skilful and confident.
Wolves played reasonably only for brief periods . They are recognised as being a formidable second half team .
So Coady made a mistake . Of course he was devastated. We could all see that.
But he is the heart and soul of that team and they can put this defeat behind them at the weekend.
Kendall.
Excellent mate.
Interesting analysis on a different Wolves forum tonight. This shows Wolves have had only 4 spells in the top flight since the mid 70’s. What this shows is just how far we have come in the last 2 or 3 seasons compared to previous visits. In my book it also shows how impatient some fans have become. A lack of recognition as to where we were and where we are now. Folks know my glass is always half full. Happy we are a strong Premier League side. Certainly not up there with the real big guns. But a solid premier league team. It takes time to become established and that is what we need to do. Then we may kick on and maybe look at a new level.
To put this into perspective you also need to look at the club’s owners and principals.since the mid 1970’s.
Harry Marshall / John Ireland / Jack Harris – small town businessmen.
The Bhattis – need no more description.
Jack Gallagher – self styled short term custodian (who actually saved the club) and handed on to -.
Sir Jack, who had his faults but was The Godfather of the return of WWFC from the Dark Ages. Without his input, financial and otherwise, we would probably be in League 1.
And then cane Morgan – the scouse chancer and charlatan.
So we can see why we have spent so much time in the wilderness. Sir Jack was the only real long term contributor in over 40 years and we were seriously left behind, twice almost to the point of extinction.
And then in 2016 came Fosun.
They took stock for a year and then in a blaze of trumpets. horns, bells and whistles announced their 10 year plan to achieve European status at the highest level.
And I fully agree with your assessment that a solid mid table presence is a fantastic achievement at this point in time. But I also feel that currently we have at best stalled and are probably moving into reverse. WWFC has the potential to be a very big club; it is a one city club with a huge catchment area to sustain a multitude of non armchair supporters With the right backing (and Fosun have the clout) the sky is the limit.
So it would be a shame to see all the good groundwork of the last 4 years go to waste based on ill founded and maybe self serving strategies under such umbrellas as just “buying ones for t future” with little justification. At the moment the club’s recruitment policy appears to be controlled by one man and his agency and while this has been largely beneficial to date surely the “transition” currently taking place needs to be opened up to allow WWFC more access to a wider transfer market if our momentum is to continue towards Fosun’s stated objective.
And your most important point of all is about us – the fans, who undoubtedly are the club’s biggest asset and also it’s biggest stakeholders. We deserve and have earnt the right to see WWFC fulfil it’s potential to mix with the very best on a long term basis.
I didn’t know you’d written a book Cheesey. Bet that’s a fascinating read.
To many players went missing if you cannot be up for a game at Anfield one of the most iconic stadiums in the world secound only to Molinuex then something’s wrong.
I agree with Ben Semendo looks like a player from Barnet not Barcalona time and time again he was out paced mainly because he was out of position.
He is just not up to the job and in fact he is getting worse not better. The pace of the Premier League is far faster than LaLiga there no hiding place and if you are not on your game you’ll get punished.
The injury to Raul has exposed what many of us have known and said for months we needed a back up striker and if Nuno is not going to trust Silva and give him a chance then we need to get some identied and get them in January at ALL cost.
Paul
I quite like Semedo but he definitely has a way to go to be up toPL pace; having said that I don’t think Doc (Spurs reserves} was much better, As someone above suggested -maybe a better midfield option. Hoever RB till Jonny fit?
But if you turn out to be right then it’s another big pay day for Jorge based on 2 failed deals. Also Neto, Jordao, Campana, Jota, Podence, Vinaigre, Vitinha, Silva, Costa, Cav all Gestitite clients with Wolves associations have been on the move recently. And Neto being touted for a move to Juve after only 15 months.
Plus a new contract negotiated for Nuno.
Can’t be a healthy scenario.
PJB,
I agree I also think our transfer policy is blinkered for instance we never seem to look at the British market theses days and our main criteria when buying someone seems to be all about there sell on value not what they can do for the team NOW…!
Mendez has made a fortune which means FOSUN have got a portion of the money back being shareholders in his company.
Hit the nail on the head Paul.
For “ones for the future” read ones to sell on; sorry everyone but Jota is the prime example – bought for £12 million in 2018 (after proving himself on loan) and sold on just as he nears his peak for £45 million 2 years later; wouldn’t be surprised to see him move on to one of Jorge’s Italian giants for over £100 million in a couple of years which would mean accrued commission for Gestitute (20% Fosun owned) on well over £150 million in 4 years.
Mendes is moving players around Europe like pawns all the time but I fear he is being allowed to carry it to the extreme with Wolves. Can’t think why.
The underlying question is – what are the real motives of the owners of WWFC.
Let’s wait and see what happens to Neto.
I’ve been saying, hinting about Nuno and his strange sudden tactics since we put on a load of players in the last 15 mins at Wembley (for experience)only to see us loose against Watford….
To switch wings with a left footed player on the right and traore on the left gave me a head scratching moment …
..Coady bless him kicked the result into touch I thought we were potentially worth 1 goal diff if we tactically played well ..
Well that was a joke Nuno..
up to that we looked a bit cocky but confident..
Overall we are misfiring with a slow puncture..We need 4 players and a restart..
4-0 against liverpool is not a huge embarrassment but incidentally we have lost 4-0 to West Ham too..Nuno..
Crap..Nuno…
Mendes please save us on (all ) levels..
At the end of the day Nuno’s responsible for the team and this result be it against the champions was preventable a least the margin in which we lost we just gave up after the first goal.
His formation his tactics we seemed to have abandoned all our strengths and torn everything up that we were good at.
Players that were flying this time last season are passive and ponderous Neves for instance he looks a shadow of the player he was last season with his defence spitting passes and wonder goals hasn’t scored this season.
All this comes back to one person…Nuno
He changed the team at Wembley because we were under the cosh, not for experience. I agree he got his substitutions wrong though.
I think the above comments cover most of the disappointment.
However, all is not lost. It is better to win one and lose one, than to “be tough to beat” and draw two! We are in the middle of a 7 game run, where we have to play five of the “top six”, and rivals Villa! We already have 3 points.
The next two games are at home, and believe some fans will be allowed, and THAT will turn on the boys. If we get 7 points from the next five games that may not be the end of the world, we could conceivably get 9! Both Villa and Burnley are realistic wins, then just one more!
Counting chickens and hatching comes to mind!!
No fans unless Wolverhampton is reduced to tier 2, which it probably won’t be.
A totally side issue but far more important than football.
Today my youngest son who is a front line worker gets his Covid 19 vaccination. He called me and asked for my advice, which I gave as a resounding, “YES have it”.
I respect all our contributors to this great blog and if you look at the ages, life stories and medical conditions of our guys and girls on here, I urge you all to please, please, please, as soon as it’s offered jump at the opportunity to take it.
Don’t listen to the anti vaccine BS being spread by people with other agendas please take it. That way, we will defeat the virus, and we will get our lives back and crowds streaming in at the Golden Palace.
I have to second Stu on this. My daughter is a GP and she insists that me & her Mom get it as soon as we are offered it.
I grew up when smallpox, polio and diphtheria were still around and measles and mumps were something you expected to get. Anyone not wanting a vaccination is entitled to their choice, but it’s the wrong choice for both themselves and the wider population.
A few weeks ago my niece, who still lives in the same household as my sister, brother in law and youngest nephew, came home from work (she works in the NHS). She felt rough, got tested and had covid 19. Then all the rest of them got it as well. Bro in law had a few days in hospital on an oxygen machine. They are all well and recovered now. It just shows how quick this virus can spread in closed spaces. Get the vaccine folks. I will.
Thank you Cheesy
Thank you PJB
Much said on here about Nelson Semedo and his qualities, or otherwise.
Personally, I can definitely see a player in there, but as a wing back in a back five. We bought in two excellent wing backs (Semedo and Ait Nouri), then promptly switched to a back four requiring career full backs. Then losing Raul and his ability to hold the ball up front has simply exacerbated the problem. I foresee us returning to five at the back, the system the players were bought in for, at least until Raul’s return or a temporary replacement for him is found.
Good summary Ben.
We were outclassed, outfought and out everything. We looked a league lower once the second Liverpool goal went in. The sad truth is that in season three in the PL we should be doubling down on our achievements of the preceding seasons, by keeping our best and recruiting more of same. Instead, we sold two top players (possibly for window-dressing profit purposes) and spent big on players who have not , and might not, ever deliver in the PL. I’d almost wager that the likes of Taylor Perry and others in the academy would be at least the equal of our £35mil teenage-signing Silva.
My theory on window-dressing of profits is this. Doc cost us £80K or something. His cost would have been written down over the years to zero. Bang, we sell him for £15mil so pure profit for the accounts. Ditto, Jota. We had him on loan originally and then signed him for £12mil in 2018. That might have been written down over the length of his contract from the signing in July 2018, to give a book value of about £6 mil by July 2020. Kerching! We sell him for a cool £45mil (?) and book a profit of nearly £40mil for the accounts. Those two deals enhance our Profit & Loss Account by about £55mil. It matters not that incoming and outgoing transfers might be in stage payments, it’s the actual sale or purchase figure that really matters. Spending £35mil on Silva makes no difference to profits unless we go and sell him for bugger all and book a huge loss. Why did we spend £35mil on Silva? That sure as hell books a massive profit for his selling club! Did they need the profit to help with FFP? If so, very convenient. Was it a genuine arms-length transaction? Was there a bidding war for Silva? If everything was kosher, surely Silva will show the world why he is worth £35mil and start banging in the goals. I would be delighted to have my hunches rubbished by a sackful of goals.
It almost seems as though we got good deals on the likes of Neves when we were in the Championship and couldn’t afford more and then we are overpaying back now to even things out.
Wow
Strong stuff DWW and Tim and you’ll upset one or two on here.
But I ‘m going to wade in alongside you.
I’ll accept Doc / Semedo as an upgrade but the Jota / Silva scenario makes no sense at all. And how we could do with Jota now. He’s not a traditional CF of course but he is more than capable of playing down the middle in a different way.
Look at the list of players who are / have been involved with Mendes –
Costa
Cav
Miranda
Boly
Doherty
Neves
Jota
Vinagre
Moutinho
Campana
Jordao
Neto
Silva
Semedo
Vitinha (pending)
Patricio
Jonny
Podence
Total T/o (including outs) = c. £350 million
Plus Nuno and who knows how many of his staff.
Does this one man exercise disproportionate influence at WWFC?
Rubbish!!
Gerroff!!
DWW / Tim
Wow!
Strong stuff and you’ll upset one or two on here but I’m going to wade in alongside.
I can take Semedo v Doc as an upgrade but the Jota / Silva scenario makes no sense at all. And how we could do with Jota now. Of course he’s not a traditional CF but he can and has played down the middle in a different way.
And look at the list of players who are / have been involved with Mendes –
Costa
Cav
Doc
Miranda
Boly
Neves
Vinagre
Jota
Jonny
Patricio
Moutinho
Jordao
Neto
Campana
Podence
Vitinha
Silva
Semedo
Total T/o (ins and outs) = approx £350 million
Plus Nuno and who knows how many of his staff.
Does this man wield disproportionate influence at WWFC?
Let me clarify what I was referring to because I think I am being dragged into a debate by a misunderstanding.
When Wolves signed Neves from Porto, I was hearing that he was worth 30 million pounds or something like that. No way could we afford that. Then he gets signed for 16 million or something like that. So we got a great deal and saved something like 15 million.
Now, Wolves sign Fabio for 35 million or something like that from Porto. Maybe he was more worth 20 million and we overpaid by 15 million.
15 million minus 15 million equals zero.
There is a rumour going around that Mendes works that way. It all evens out but you can avoid FFP if the numbers get lowered like that at the appropriate time.
One of the executives of Porto said Fabio had a 10 million release clause. Not sure if it is true but……
I hate and detest to say this, Timmy, but you are slowly beginning to make some sense.
Emphasis on the slowly, mind, wouldn’t want your head to swell or anything!!
Saw on some B.S. social media site a comment to the effect that did the liverfool fans all get their knickers in a twist when they got stuffed by the Villa?
Good point, I think.
Take the defeat on the chin and move on, and cheer whomsoever wears the colors on the pitch on game day.
FOwb
You make a good point Clive. Defeats happen. And so does capitalism. I’m not sure what world those amongst us who seem to be suggesting there is something wrong in Fosun making a profit live in. Do they think Fosun should somehow act as a benevolent saint motivated by a desire to sustain and protect some (from their point of view) obscure football team from a distant and unglamorous town in the Black Country? Well the truth is they are a successful money making machine who are in it to make money. A fortunate side-affect is that Wolves prosper and reach heights not achieved in decades.
They do this, in part, by increasing the value of the club, and partly by buying and selling assets( i.e. players).All clubs do it. Liverpool bought Coutinho, from memory, for about £8 mil and sold him for about £142 mil, Spurs and Bale, Leicester and Maguire, and so on and on.
And Wolves do it. The trick of course is to do this whilst continuing to increase the value of the club. Which is largely what Fosun have succeeded in doing.
Some of us may not like it but that’s how it is. A few on this wonderful Blog need to get real.
What about winning something does that come in to it……….thats one sure way of increasing value……..having a successful team or is success just being in the Premier League.
They say they want to compete……..that’s going to cost money to really compete break into top 6.
Are FOSUN more interested in profit before success……..?
Actually Paul as I tried to explain their route to profit is through success. And mainly they have succeeded. But as in any enterprise there will setbacks. And if I have understood Fosun correctly they will work through problems to achieve their ultimate target. From our point of view as passionate Wolves supporters this will bring what we most want – on going success for Wolves.
I think you can measure success how you want. In my book finishing 7th in the top flight twice running for a club like us is success. But others have a different view. Like winning a trophy. Which is fair enough. Its subjective as to what each individual considers.
Unfortunately HW some people still have the morgan/moxey phobia implanted in their brain.
They believe fosun are with us to rip every penny they can out of the club then disappear .
They cannot see the bigger picture and never will see it
I bet they think their window cleaner is ripping them off and just sticking a note through the door !
here ! here !
And the problem with avoiding Ffp is !!!!!!
The argument about Fosun, and Nuno comes down to one single fact in my book.
(Yes, I have written one, Wolfstroker).
When they became involved with the club, we were languishing in the bottom half of The Championship with owners that wouldn’t invest in the team and fans who were absolutely pissed off.
Now, we’re comfortable in The Premier League with a side full of Internationals.
The only thing in common with then, that we seem to have now, is pissed off fans.
Oooh careful mr doogooder, you’ll be accused of not having ambition.
Come on you mighty wolves
Its really easy Doog , to just end up moaning and finding fault.
Its our passion but….its always been, and still is just a game.
Will still be a game, even after we’ve been stretched out in our underground static caravan.
I know ,some on here will call for me to be thrown to the lions (‘no -one likes em’) but just enjoy the journey…
If everything was running like well oiled machine, what would there be to chew over in the man cave?
Nuno is the best manager we’ve had in years and has a huge pool of talent to chose from.
Its incredible how much we have grown in such a short time.
You too DG?? I’m off to Waterstones first thing in the morning.
It’s the sort that you get in a plain brown wrapper mate.
Or the top shelf of a newsagent in sandwell.
With you on page three and the centrefold spread??
That was a bit of a shocker after they scored, which settled them and completely destroyed any semblance of confidence we had shown for the first twenty-five minutes.
I share the despondency but not the fears of many astute watchers on this site; We are three positions short of our normal performances and I think we will cover some of those from within, maybe. We have seen before that Nuno takes his time usually in introducing players to the first team and Hoever and Vitinha may be able to improve matters; maybe not. However, the replacement for Jimenez or backup has not been there at any time as Fabio, looks promising, is far too young to carry the burden in my opinion. Hoever and Vitinha may be similar but leading the line is far more onerous and requires much experience or outright brilliance.
I think we will be fairly active in the January window and, with our past record to go on, we may unearth something worthwhile.
Liverpool are capable of doing that to any top team in Europe on their day, so I am trying to put that game into a more reasoned perspective; ie, toss it aside, having learned a few hard truths; good luck to them.
Semedo’s defensive attributes need much, much work, but against lesser teams he is adequate and good going forward. Kilman has looked so solid and calm, I cannot see him on the sidelines much longer. Boly’s distribution is a cause for concern at the moment, but he is a giant aerially. The four at the back system is still not balanced and working as well defensively but allows us a more attacking threat, so I would stick with it, but use the ability to swap to three at the back seamlessly when necessary.
It’s been a real downer of a performance but, as someone said, we are still in our best ever position after so many games for many years, so all is not as dark as it seems; he keeps telling himself.
Compared to where we were with where we are now under Fosun is a bit like moaning about the wallpaper in your mansion having spent most of your life in a one room bedsit. Like many on here I get frustrated when progress stalls, I crave for the real success of winning trophies , long for European adventures and question aspects of our player acquisition. However, Fosun are the best owners ( even with sir jacks magnificent benevolence) and Nuno the best manager since I started watching wolves in 1974. There is an awful lot more to be grateful for than critical of and so we must remain patient- me included!
So I certainly underestimated the impact of 2000 fans
In hindsight though, a team who hadn’t celebrated their only ever premier league trophy had a chance to shout from the rooftops, fair play to them , so many spoke of hairs on the back of the neck and goosebumps etc, fookin hell I reckon they would have stuffed our 1966 World Cup winners Sunday,
The fact that we competed for an hour and had a 4-1 shots on , at one point is quite remarkable really, it’s worth remembering at this point that not only Liverpool have injuries, we have a few ourselves.
I can’t be bothered to google but I heard that our finishing team in our previous game was our youngest ever in the league!!
That was a game that we won away at arsenal, a team I can hardly ever remember beating .
Anybody not willing to back our current owner or coach should think this for one moment
If Burnley beat arsenal next week and Arteta gets sacked, would you be happy if nuno left for arsenal?
Villa Saturday
Get your shirt on
Back the lads ( however young they are)
Three points- top eight
Come on you mighty wolves
Maybe we were a bit too adventurous ? I anticipated Nuno starting with a back 3/5 but he went with a 4. Possibly the thinking was that they had defensive problems, personnel-wise and so we should have a go at them, especially after the last 2 encouraging performances and results. But it failed to take into account that we were missing the focal point of our attack.
It didn’t look too bad, especially before Coady’s error and even up until they got a lucky break and the ball ended up in our net for the second. But at that point you could see the confidence drain out of the team.
Given our tough December fixtures, I hope Nuno sticks with the well-practiced 3/5 defence against the ‘big boys’ but goes for a more attack-minded 4 at the back against the Vile and Burnley (which probably means playing 4 attackers, Traore, Podence, Neto and Silva).
Guo Guangchang 53 year old Wolverhampton Wanderers FC owner was quoted as being worth £5.7 Billion in March 2020.
Guo Guangchang 53 year old Wolverhampton Wanderers fc owner is now worth £6.8 Billion.
He said, prior to buying Wolves, “he was not really a football fan, adding, he now sets his alarm clock to get up at 4am to watch every game”.
This is not a guy that relies on selling our assets, nor does he need to make money and then cut and run.if Nuno asked for a sum of money, I have no doubt he will get it.
We are still ahead of our plan and I would not put a bet on us not achieving it.
The Great Debate taking place above (and beyond) seems to be getting very polarised.
On one side – the we should be grateful to Fosun for no longer being the laughing stock of the country, never mind the Black Country.
On the other side – the unrealistic brigade who think we have failed because we aren’t in the Champions League already.
Surely there is middle ground.
Nobody in their right mind can complain about the achievements and resurgence of Wolves under Fosun. And I for one do not question their expectation to make money out of their investment in the club.
On the other hand they did make some very bold and ambitious noises 3 years ago about their expectations and objectives ON THE FIELD. Apart from Fosun we as supporters are the main stakeholders in WWFC. Fosun have done very nicely so far as the club’s valuation has increased tenfold since they purchased it.
So whilst we as supporters have thus far little or nothing to complain about neither is it unreasonable for our owners to honour their side of the bargain. If we have no ambition to take the project further then there is limited value in it. Stagnation in mid table is not what was promised. And if there is a perception that the motives of another entity, also a Fosun associate, may be coming into conflict with our interests as FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS rather than investors and bankers, then surely we are entitled to raise questions.
Which is why some of us are currently more than a little sceptical about WWFC’s recruitment and disposal of playing staff. Because at the moment it does look to be a bit of a closed shop which may not always, shall we say, be fully in our mutual interests.
As I recall PJB, Fosun said at the start it was a 10 year plan.
Indeed hey did, but as I’ve said if we are to be a selling club, then selling clubs don’t maximise their potential. And at the moment the 10 year plan is still on.
But if the sale of eg. Jota becomes a regular event then the 10 year plan will fall apart. I think Neto.’s future could become an acid test.
Somewhere in the middle is usually where the truth is found…
PJB,
Great Blog. I think people know my view on FOSUN for instace why a ten year plan. I know you have to plan but why so long, is that before we compet or is that when we can expect to win a trophy.
Is the ten year plan a limit on where they want to be are they trying to get there sooner or not.
To me its simple I would want to be succesful as soon as possibile and would stop at nothing to make that happen like other clubs have first Blackburn then Chelsea and then Man City so why arent FOSUN….?
Paul
Fair point – It’s not as if the funds aren’t there – WWFC is petty cash in Fosun’s empire (20% of the Pfizer / BioNtech vaccine eg). And I don’t accept that FFP is insurmountable, where there’s a will there’s a way.
I think the time has come when we shall soon see what Fosun’s real intent is though I have a feeling they may still be in shall we / shan’t we territory and the constant buying of “ones for the future” does not really convince me.
However, we both have to concede that-we are a lot better off than before they arrived.
As usual PJB you put your points across in a reasonable narrative. But I would suggest many supporters won’t be calling Fosun in to question at the moment. Wolves are only a shoddy wall against Newcastle away from sitting joint 6th in the table. Eleven points clear of relegation places. If you are suggesting Fosun and a certain agent are ‘milking’ the club and have no ambition to take us further then I would question that assumption at this moment in time. If you read between the lines of Jeff Shi’s pre season statement he said Wolves will look to strengthen where they can. He also said to be prepared to take a step back before moving forward again. Unless there has been a drastic change in this planning then the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and subsequent transfer windows will probably show the direction in which we are heading. Nuno is also on record as stating the sales of Matt and Diogo were part of the planning with his blessing. He said he wanted to ‘evolve’ the playing style. Playing a back four might well be part of this thinking. I admit the performances have been mixed so far but in mitigation this is to be expected with new players. New style to evolve. As ever points on the board will shape fans thinking and all sorts of ideas emerge when things go wrong. It is to be expected. But i appeal for patience as we go forward in to the immediate future.
Where did I indicate Fosun were “milking” ” the club. I deliberately refrained from doing so because I don’t think that they are. If you read my comments properly I said completely the opposite – that they are perfectly entitled to expect a decent return on their investment. Neither have I seen any mention of Jeff Shi specifically talking about taking a step back which I believe would be a mistake,
My reservations relate to the club’s apparent policy of buying to sell on and anyone pretending that this isn’t happening is naive, No problem with Doherty. It was a good deal and despite an erratic start Semedo is an upgrade; but the sale of Jota just as he is reaching his prime was ridiculous. If you are going to build a team to reach the heights you should not be cashing in on your star assets, because like it or not that makes you a selling club. And selling clubs don’t go all the way.
And in this regard in my opinion, and we are all entitled to that, is that a more open strategy regarding transfers might be advantageous to our progression. because at present we have an awful lot of eggs in one particular basket.
As for Nuno, what else would he say.
The Chinese are supposedly an inscrutable people, which in Fosun’s case is a good thing.
With greedy, selfish agents all across the globe holding out their grubby, sticky fingers for any thing to cling to in passing, much like the fronds of sea anemones, it is no surprise that Wolves’s transfer dealings are done behind closed doors, not in the media.
We are not privvy to the machinations of the financial management of our beloved club, nor should we be.
Some business relationships are built on trust, some on mutual disrespect.
We have to trust Fosun and have faith in their long term plans, which hopefully will coincide with ours.
Meanwhile, surely we can all agree that over the past few years we have witnessed some breath taking football, unseen for a couple of generations at The Mol.
And, ever since the dawn of the beautiful game, there have and always will be disagreements amongst fans about players comings and goings.
Long may it continue, but Diogo aint coming back, let’s please finally get past that!!
Oh, nearly forgot,
FOwb
Good summary Clive. It’s a strange phenomenon unique to sport that players who have left the club or left on the bench would always have acquitted themselves better than those associated with a poor performance? In the eyes of some supporters anyway. Some still hark back to Peter Knowles, what a talent he was! Any road up, let’s put this debate to bed now, get behind the players we do have and beat those ups starts from Villa.
Clive
Agreed on everything you say in principle.
I only differ on the detail.
Firstly as I have said ad infinitum I have reservations about being involved in what is virtually a closed shop. And secondly – yes Jota has gone but I feel very strongly for several different reasons that he he shouldn’t have; at least not at this point in time and I think the unfortunate (unacceptable) injury to Jiminez has highlighted that.
Before you all kill yourselves over the loss of Diogo, (for the record, my Grandson and I absolutely love the kid)
Take a scroll through the gallery of the Wolves players in training for the Veeela game.
The very last picture, a certain Mr Jonny Castro.
Yes, before you all get ready to jump down my throat, I know he’s not ready, but he looks fookin happy and very fit.
We are two players short of being able to realistically maintain a top 6 position. Jonny is one, can we find the other?
Who is our penalty taker now that Raul is out for a while?
Back to neves I’d have thought!
This picture is supposed to be from today (Thursday) at Compton.
Maybe Wednesday.
No, today is Friday, in NZ
Ask Lord Twix
Some more.
Well done Timmo.
He was certainly feeling the love.
Sod the social distancing. Give the man a big hug.