Typical.
The vast majority of us went into this match thinking a draw would be an excellent result, but by the end we were all licking our wounds and cursing our luck having only picked up a point.
Kevin Doyle - 3 goals in 4 league games
Kevin Doyle’s cool finish had us all dreaming of another crucial away win, but it wasn’t to be. A bad decision and a lapse in our otherwise solid rearguard cost us the result.
As disappointing as that is, we must take the positives out of the match and move on to the Villa next weekend.
And there were plenty of things to be positive about.
The return of Michael Kightly and SEB to the starting eleven can only be seen as a good thing. Neither look razor sharp, but with more minutes under their respective belts, we can expect better in the coming weeks.
On another day, SEB might have been celebrating his first Premiership goals, having failed to convert two presentable chances for a striker of his calibre. Undoubtedly though, we got a glimpe of what the Doyle Ebanks-Blake partnership is all about, namely, genuine goal threat. For all the effort, endeavour and link-up play that Keogh brings to the side, having two strikers that know where the goal is has a very obvious appeal. And both players probed and asked questions of the Everton defence throughout, eventually getting their reward with the opener.
At the other end of the pitch, Ronald Zubar was finally (FINALLY) given his chance and he performed admirably in a much stronger back four. Looking at that defensive quartet, there’s a bit of everything; pace, postional sense and most importantly, experience. Having Craddock in the side seems to sure things up, so it was a good decision by Mick to bring him back in. With Michael Mancienne recovering from illness, I wonder whether he’ll find his way back in anytime soon.
Praise to for the continued improvement of our goalkeeper. He made a few good saves and again looked assured between the sticks. The quality of his kicking is superb, so it was no surprise to see him lend an assist with a giant hoof up the pitch. He was left exposed for the equaliser and could do very little, despite his best efforts to scramble across.
I’m not going to say too much about refereeing decisions, but it was a foul on Doyle in the lead up their goal and The Hoff’s sending off was a little bit soft. That being said, the big Austrian certainly seemed keen to get stuck-in and we know he has a reputation for getting into trouble. I suspect it won’t be the last time we see him taking an early bath in his Wolves career. Quite a character.
So definite disappointment we didn’t get the win, but I certainly feel better today than I did following the Portsmouth defeat. The Villa match will be another great test for our young stars, but I now have faith that we can once again compete and maybe even get the result.
With this Wolves team, nothing surprises me.
feels like a defeat, but like u say thomas, plenty of positives. sounds like elokobi was better,but quite where he was 4there goal was anyones guess. its the refs that make me sick. i do like my conspiracies, and i reckon there mite be one! shocking decisions at sundrland cost us, spineless, gutless, cheating refereeing cost us at least 1pt v pompey, while 3pts snatched away sat due to incompetent atwell,missing felaini’s assault on doyle. i dont expect it to even itself out either
Much improved display. The biggest thing for me is how much more competent out back four looked without Mancienne there. I have said for a very long time that he is not upto Championship standard let alone PM. Lets hope mick keeps him warming the bench for the rest of the season.
Couldn’t fault anyone on the park saturday. Hennersy particuly impressed me and indeed think the point we got was mostley down to his great goal saving contributions and one big hoof up the field for our goal.
I don’t think Big George is to blame for the goal. For starters the ball should never had got out to Evertons left wing because of the foul on Doyle, but when it did the quality of the cross really took Elikobi out of the picture, he would hav more than likley turned it in to our net if he had tried to play it.
Great result, very solid perfomance.
Lets keep Mancienne out of the first 11 eh Mick. He is rubbish and we are a better team with out him!!!
Very very unfortunate in my eyes but I would have taken a point before the game!
I’m hoping we can create a bit more from play off the deck rather than set pieces or going ‘route one’ but any goal I appreciated at this level and it’s good to have Doyle on the end of them. Got a real barfin there if he keeps scoring at this rate.
Bring on villa. Definitely think we need to go at teams. Ok when we aren’t at our 100% best we will get beat but if we do play well we shouldn’t fear anyone. We can take teams on home and away, and I love the underdog status. Just a shame that underdog label may be countin against us with the refs decisions. What about a controversial last min pen that gives us a win against Chelsea. Would love to see the pundits go mad for that but we can feel happy in the knowledge we deserve it!
EmeraldPete, Where was Mancienne. I rate him higher than Craddock and Berra. Was impressed by Zubar too and Edwards was immense,
Definitely points lost however much we say “take the positives” we dominated so much of the game with 12-15 passes on the trot many times….I am a fan of Big George but to me he seemed a bit below par..Zubar, Craddock and Halford looked better than ever though in my opinion. I do agree that Mancienne needs a bit of time out so we can see if he lifts his game when/if he gets back in…as for the Hoff what disappointed me most was that he didnt launch Howard into the stands once he knew he was being sent off…as for Villa I hope for a result more than most as I only live a few minutes away from Villa park and as such am surrounded by their fans and would love the chance to dish out some stick for a few days
Louie. The media said he was recovering from an illness (appentley beleving your own press is a real sickness) but I would like to think MM just came to his senses and realised he just doesn’t have what it takes at this level.
Positionaly poor, weak in the air and easly bullied by anyone a bit bigger than him.
Edwards has really turnd my head this season with the performances he has put in, deffo one of my players of the season so far. Zubar had an excellent game, played out of position he was very solid in defence and tried, although clearly uncomfortable doing so, to get forward and deliver ball into the box.
What is peoples opinion about Mancienne. Mine are very clear and have been from day one. Should he be in our first 11?? Because on Sat performance I don’t think you can put him back in!!!
Like I mentioned in the previous post, Everton are dogshit! Feel a little unfortunate not to have had the win especially after the clear foul on Doyle in the build up. Disappointed that nobody tracked their scorer (who’s name I can neither pronounce nor spell) – Elokobi was in no mans land ball watching and Jarvis up the field. It was a well taken goal though.
MM keeps talking about belief – the players have it and now it’s time for the supporters to believe it too, we too often are quick to criticise! As for you Emerald Pete, why criticise one of our players so harshly? Mancienne is a quality player, he wouldn’t be on Chelsea’s books if he wasn’t. His confidence may have been hit, but I beleive he will do a far better job at left back than Elokobi. I love Big George but you can tell he’s a lower league player, all he wants to do is hoof the ball – his distribution is plain awful.
Anyway onto Villa – my fear here is the moaning groaning “Woe is me” attitude of the home faithful, although against Villa they may be up for it. Stay behind the team and we have every chance of getting a result, do the usuall moaning and expect to be beaten!
I think Mancienne is going to be a big big player. will play for England. He will be better than our last great centre back (Joleon) when he gets older. His positioning is fine. His calmness on the ball is amzing and he can play. Him and Berra for me. Craddock, has done alright, but too slow in my opinion.
anyone else think Edwards was the best player on the park?
By the way Thomas, when would you like me to give an edited version by?
Louie you do know Mancienne’s cost us the most points yet. He let Noble shoot against West ham(given it was is very first premier league game), He let Geovanni riun through together with Elokobi, he let Adebayor score, he let Pompey score and he gave away the penalty against Fulham.
He’s a good player but he proving costly.
Hmm. Midfielders should be blocking shots too. Geovaani was back post, Big George and Jarvo. Adebayor was waynes fault, Pompey wingers should have been closing down cross and penalty was only stupid thing and we won.
Did you also notice that last season. our dip in form coincided when MM had to go back to Chelsea? He was our best players those ten games and up their with HEnry and Doyle these first nine.
Louie stick to your guns fella, I’m with you – Mancienne has made errors, but who hasn’t – SEB missed some sitters but know one criticises him and so on and on and on! All players make errors. Mancienne is quality. Us wolves fans are exceptionally good at turning great players into awful ones by destroying their confidence!
well said Jed. This is hist first premier league season as well as all the others. I think he could be the difference for us. how near is murray to full fitness, because If he get’s fit, theres will be even more reason for me to think we will stay up.
Jed. Mancienne first off, is not one of our players, and just because your on the books of a top four team does not mean you are a quality Prem player. They have plenty of shite to fill out squad places and we have one one loan.
Mancienne never played one minute of Prem football for Chelsea, 4 different managers have deamed him to be not good enough and we are not talking about crack pot, cluless journey men, no hopers of management we are talking about the creme de la creme of world football leaders. Mourino, Scolari, Hiddink and now Ancholitti. No mugs there and none of them wanted anything to do with Mancienne.
And before you bang on about the new contract he was given before he came to us, that means nothing to what the Chealse “Coach” thinks of him, all contract decisions are made at director level and the manager / coach left to pick the team just like on the continent.
Also, why shouldn’t I critisise him??? He has been at fault more than anyone in a Gold shirt this season and I am a fan on a fans site with an opinon!!
If your pining your hope on staying up on Mancienne, you might as well wave bye bye to the PL now.
Pete & Louie – Nice jousting, I like to see such strong opinions being thrown around. Makes for good blogging.
As with most things though, with two such extreme views, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle.
I think Louie is right in that Mancienne has all the attributes to be a great player and in a good number of the matches so far, has performed admirably.
In saying that, Pete is also correct when he highlights the young defender’s weaknesses. He can be bullied by the more physical strikers and does get caught out positionally at times.
I would like to see him given a go at left back but that seems unlikely, given how highly Mick thinks of Big George. I like Elokobi but he hasn’t been brilliant thus far and he was partly to blame for Saturday’s equaliser, with the most blatant case of ball-watching I’ve ever seen in my life.
Good stuff lads.
Haha yeah. When do you want me to send the blog thing Tom. I’ll make an edited on in a minute.
Calm down Pete, watch your blood pressure!
Quote “Mancienne never played one minute of Prem football for Chelsea, 4 different managers have deamed him to be not good enough and we are not talking about crack pot, cluless journey men, no hopers of management we are talking about the creme de la creme of world football leaders. Mourino, Scolari, Hiddink and now Ancholitti. No mugs there and none of them wanted anything to do with Mancienne.”
Why would they play him when they have 4 world class defenders in front of him? If we had Terry, Carvelho et al in our team then I would expect him to be benched, trouble is we don’t and he is as good if not better than what we have. Come up with a decent argument and I may listen, spill out that bologne as your argument and I will continue to laugh uncontrollably!
I’m not saying Mancienne wouldn’t be a better bet at left back than George. I would welcolme the trail. I’m saying he is never a good enough centre half. I have said it constantly since he was signed and think I am being proved correct, but again thats just my opinion, I would love to hear what every one else has to say about him.
Good performance against Everton, can’t believe i was gutted with a point.
As with the Mancienne debate, i was glad to see jody back. Yes he’s a bit slow but he aint half a good defender and his experience is crucial. Why is it that he’s the only player from Jones/Hoddle era that remains? (barring the keepers). I don’t think Mancienne’s a bad player, but i wouldn’t throw him back in, personally i think he’d make a better full back.
Onto Villa and now am much more confident, but we must defend set pieces! And as there wasn’t a ‘i think we’ve a good chance of winning’ option on the poll, i voted for ‘easy win’
Pete i can understand why you think not up to Prem standard but Championship? He was fantastic and his partnership with Stearman was good. I hadb’t noticed that bit.
anyway, I can’t believe we got Doyle. He could get into the Everton team I reckon.
Louie it’s not just that Mancienne can prove costly it’s also the fact that Craddock and Berra have been better in all games this season. Foley was our player of the season last year and based on the performance against Everton Zubar’s better.
So it’s not just because Mancienne makes they occasional mistakes, my opinion is also based on the fact we have better players on the bench waiting to take his place. And what happens we keep a clean sheet away to Everton for 88 mins.
keeping a clean sheet for 88 minutes means absolutely nothing Laurens if we haven’t won. are you saying Zubar is better than Foley (defo not) or Mancienne (defo not). He looks great but he is settling in. He was very solid though.
I don’t know why people say hes not good in the air because he is. His timing and positioning are perfect so it doesn’t matter. and btw, who was Mancienne bullied by?
did you know that AC Milan kept a clean sheet for 45 minutes vs Liverpool in the champions leage. They ended up drawing 3-3.
Louie, Parkin at Preston exsposed him as the over hyped little boy he is, and the tall centre forward he played agaist, had a mare against, was at fault for the goal agaist and got sent off agaist Engalds opening oppents in the U21′s in the summer.
He has already faild two physical tests this season, Carlton Cole & Kenwyne Jones beat him badly, can you imaging him against Kevin Davies??? Also I bet Drogba has a field day with him training.
Fact is, we look a far better defensive unit on Saturday with out him in the side.
Laurens, glad there is not just me talking sense on here.
Louie, as for “good in the air because he is. His timing and positioning are perfect so it doesn’t matter”
Don’t make me laugh, Jed has done enough of that already!!!!!
The only time we have kept a clean sheet (which means not conceding for the whole game, Laurens) was against a side who put three past Chelsea at the same place and recently got a draw off City. Carlton Cole, didnt score, did nothing. Kenwyne Jones won about one header and scored a brilliant game. Can’t remember anything else he did and hes done more damage against better sides. I have no idea where all this stuffs come. Its weird how a talented player is always harrassed by Wolves fans and his confidence goes. I see Milijas coming under all this soon.
I have a time when a team kept a clean sheet for 88 minutes. Bayern Munich in the CL final were one nil up. We all know what happened…
Rave all you like about Mancienne, he is positionally poor, lacks genuine pace, can;t hack it against taller strikers and a liability.Yes, one day he will be a good player , but why are we helping Chelsea by grooming him for this eventuality. I’d leave him on the bench Saturday, and keep the same side as per Everton. The only bit of tinkering I might do, is play Keogh isntead of Seb. Keogh is more creative, and Seb looks off the pace to me. There is nothing to fear against Villa, yes, a good side, but the Everton and Man City fan said the same. We will WIN on Saturday, move into mid table, and the sun will shine once more. It is on live here, so I ask every single one of you at the game, to (a) blow out my Bose speakers with a wall of noise and (b) intimidate the ref in the hope we may get a decision go our way.Roll on Saturday and 3 points.
Daz – maybe yours should have been the first comment, as then we’d kick off about Keogh and about Mancienne.
My 2 cents worth – Mancienne is the best individual defender at the club, however, the defence as a whole performs better with Craddock. Therefore Craddock must play.
Secondly, and relatedly, what does this say about Hennessey’s keeping (Thomas – I know you like a keeper’s opinion) if we are reliant on JC to organise the back 4. I think this is a weakness of Wayne’s (probably his biggest) in that he is either (1 not vocal enough or (and I think) 2 not yelling the correct instructions). Shot stopping wise he was very good even if he did fumble the 1st cross he came for.
Thirdly – RZubar was magic at RB, that header where he made up 6 yards on the attacker was amazing- however, with the 1 cross he hit with his left peg, I was convinced he is not the answer at LB.
When I see individual defending, I mean pace, tackling, jumping etc. I was trying to say that in a “back 4″ as a “defensive unit” his positioning ie teamwork with the other 3 is poor.
I have said for yonks now that Mancienne should be playing left back, as he does look frail against bigger centre forwards, no doubt about it.
Some more examples: Marcus Bent (Blues) bullied him all over the place at the Molineux.
John Macken (yes, John Macken!) roughed him up when we won against Barnsley last season.
Then there was the journeyman Patrick Agymang who ridiculed him live on Sky when we lost 1-0 at Loftus Road. That was embarrasing.
And when we did beat Sheff Utd at Bramall Lane last year in what I still think was our ‘seminal moment’, Mancienne was rested, and Collins (for all his faults) relished his battle with Beattie. He was outstanding that night.
Emerald Pete has been airing his concerns over Mancienne for a year now. And if he wants to make it again, on a forum, then all credit to him. It’s like my stance on Keogh. I can’t stand him, think he’s garbage, but I have only ever got behind him on matchdays. (Heck, I once tried to get a Keeoogghhh chant going. In the Billy Quiet. Stewards almost ejected me!) But when I criticise him on here, I was told I wasn’t a real fan!! Crazy.
Mancienne’s positives: Pace, comfortable on the ball, can pass. Plus, he has played at left back before, has been schooled in one of the country’s best acadamies since he was a kid, and looks adaptable. He’s got a football brain, a footballing education with some of Europe’s finest.
Basically, he is everything Elokobi isn’t, and I do like him a lot, so would like him in at left back. I’m sure he’d have got closer for Everton’s equaliser.
Zubar, Berra, Craddock, Mancienne
I’m not sure about being roughed up. When Mancienne had to leave his loan deal early we lost our form. He is the best technically and I don’t know why you think his positioning is bad.
About Keogh, he is not garbage, he works his socks off and is a clever player. He’s not really a forward as he can’t finish.
Ben Ihink you are right about equalizer, it was also clear foul on Doyler though. Everyone in our end went mental! Hopefull v Villa we will get a major decision our way
Louie. I was listening on WM, and both their commentators went bezerk that the foul wasn’t given. I’m amazed Mick didn’t spend more time berating the call in his post match interview, instead of talking about the Howard shenanigans.
I’d love it, if just once, we got a dodgy one go our way. But when the opposition are established, then there’s no hope. Can you see the ref on Saturday giving us something, knowing he will have to walk past Martin O’Neill down the tunnel?
I’d like big Mick to start going bananas, taking some fines here and there, just to let the refs know we won’t take shit decisions lying down. We seem too ready to accept a shit call.
I do think left back could be the making of Mancienne. I’ve no problem with him positionally, he looked class there v Sheff Utd last season at home, when we had to stop their winger Dyer from running us ragged.
haha – did anyone catch this this morning?
http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=98072
Nice link dboy, very typical Mick.
Some interesting comments on there as well.
I particularly like this one from one well-balanced Stoke fan:
“I’ve never liked McCarthy he’s a moaning shit stirring wankrag and the fact that he manages that spunkdrenched cocktrolley of a team with it’s subnormal troglodyte following makes me dislike him even more.”
I’m not one to hold grudges, but in the words of Keegan, “I’ll love it if we beat them..love it.”
Got my ticket
dboy – good link, that was quite a laugh. The majority seem to like MM even if they hate us. Looking forward to that game even more now
Yeah, he’s a good character is Mick – one of the reasons I’ll stand by him for a long time yet given the personality bypasses we’ve had previously.
“Mick McCarthy’s Body Double” still makes me laugh.
ha i loved that too dboy. looks like he has some good banter with the lads, takes them under his wing etc rather than ‘manage’ them per se.
Some managers treat players as just pawns in their game whereas he seems to have a real affinity and trust with the players. cant fault the man for that!
Just the four points from me:
Firstly, Mancienne is not a bad player; he is a player on the books of a top four club who has played very little football for his age due to the class in front of him. Like many of our players he is on a steep learning curve and will no doubt adapt to PL football with games played.
My opinion for what it is worth (and one that dates back to when I first saw him play for us) is that he is not a centre half because of his obvious physical limitations and poor positional sense often relying on his pace to get him out of trouble. Unfortunately he is up against some seriously quick forwards in this league.
However, he is comfortable on the ball and the one thing we are not good at currently is keeping the ball as a team when in possession. Therefore, I am of the opinion that he should be given a run out at left back giving George a rest and time to look at developing his game.
Alternatively, I would like to see MM in a defensive holding role where I think he has the mobility and composure to challenge Henry and Castillo (who I rate v highly)
Point 2 – Thoroughly enjoyed the Everton performance, their crowd were surprisingly quiet but I think that can be put down to our performance. Well done lads!
Point 3 – For me Wayne is a better goalkeeper than Matt Murray. He has adapted superbly to PL football and will become a very sought after keeper if his form continues. Bar Shay Given I havent seen anything from a goal keeping perspective that has impressed me as much as Wayne.
Point 4 – I am starting to develop the opinion that the PL is corrupt and referees are at the core – its not incompetence, they are BENT! Its worse than in 2003. If far eastern betting syndicates can get at non league managers and influence academy games then why should top referees be immune – dont tell me that Germany is only country to have experienced the problem – their FA just has the balls to try and tackle it.
As always flying back from Geneva for the game
Tara abit!
The only way to get the refs to give us something is to create a cauldron of animosity at the Golden Palace.Everyone must get on the back of the ref, intimidate, shout, scream, berate…Mick should also add his two-penneth.The fact that it is a local derby this Saturday, and, being cheated in 4 games so far this season, should be enough to fire up any crowd.
Are you listening in the Billy Quiet???? You just HAVE TO BE the lads’ 12th man.
Matt. Agree with all those points. Especially your last one.
I know we all hate WBA, and rightly so, but some of the decisions they got last year were shocking. Remember when they played MUFC at the Hawthorns, and Paul Robinson got a straight red for daring to tackle one of their players? Think it was Wiley.
Basically, some teams get all the decisions, while others get none. It makes me even sicker that the FA take no retrospective action over these imbeciles, other than inflict them on some poor unsuspecting League 1 / Championship sides. Presumably these sides deserve bent, twattish decisions on a Saturday afternoon, whereas bigger clubs don’t.
Who assesses them? And when video footage can show a furious Tim Howard grab the Hoff round the scruff of the neck and throw him, the Premier League say they are satisfied with the yellow. WHY?!!!!! So they have a look at it, see that it was violent conduct, but condone it. I wonder what would have happened if Wayne had dared to lay a finger on a precious marketing machine like Cahill? Or Yakubu?
And last year, BCI gets studded in the chest by St Ledger, and simply stands his ground, only to get a red. The FA / FL then look at it and deem it to be worthy of a red and won’t rescind it?
Yet Eduardo can dive and cheat his way to a penalty against Celtic, and UEFA, another spineless governing body, rescind his red card, and tells the jumped up little cheat to keep cheating.
And the one constant throughout all of this is that the unfancied, uunfashionable, unassuming club involved will always get raped.
I simply don’t believe that there isn’t a hidden agenda.
Ben- i don’t think refs in this country are bent. But i do think they crumble at places like old trafford. Look what happened when wiley dared to allow sunderland to score. It doesn’tt help that fergie screams in their faces every time they don’t win. Wiley was then the focus of huge media attention, something refs probably like to avoid. Fergie should get action taken against him, maybe take some points off utd, that would stop him.
As for the eduardo situation, that was laughable. I think they just want to pretend diving doesn’t exist and protect the big teams in their precious champions league. Just like fifa seeding the world cup play offs to try and make sure france and portugal get through
Fifa, uefa, the premier league, whoever. They for me is what’s wrong, not the refs
I’m just annoyed that the decisions are yet to go our way really. Surely soon we will be on the right end of one? I don’t think our standards of refereeing are low. They are just doing a job nobody else wants to do.
A bit late here, but I told you so. 4-4-2 and we got a point